Professional and College Basketball Forums banner

1 - 20 of 30 Posts

·
Registered
Joined
·
5,637 Posts
Discussion Starter · #1 ·
The Blazers are obviously in cost cutting mode and are planning to build around Zach Randolph. If they get a really great offer for Wallace then they should take it, but guys like Van Horn and Jamison are not good enough to mess up the team plan, they have never shown that they can take an NBA team anywhere. Unless you get a bona fide star, the conditions on trading Wallace should be one or both of the following:

1) Getting rid of Ruben Patterson or Derek Anderson and in return getting no contracts that hurt cap space beyond 2005

2) Getting young prospects (s) and/or draft pick(s).

The only teams that want Wallace are good teams that are one player away from being really good. A bad team does not to trade good stuff for Wallace because it's too risky that he'll just leave as a free agent.

The only good team that I can think of that could use Wallace, and can offer Portland a good package, is the Pistons.

Detroit wants to keep their cap space to re-sign Okur, they don't want to take on a bad contract. As for prospects, you guys aren't getting Darko, forget it. Tayshaun Prince, I can see the Pistons giving him up for the price of renting Sheed for a year and making a title run, and also clearing 2004-05 salaries to make a run at Mehmet Okur.

So, idea:
TAYSHAUN PRINCE, ELDEN CAMPBELL, BOBBY SURA, AND ZELJKO REBRACA for RASHEED WALLACE.

Prince is a good defender, probably better than Wallace, and he is a better fit at SF. Campbell would solidify your lineup at center and put the terrible Vladimir Stepania on the bench where he belongs. Sura is not very good but he would help your depth at guard, especially since who expects Derek Anderson to stay healthy, not me. Rebraca is dead weight, you can cut him instantly along with Ruben Boumtje-Boumtje if you need an extra roster spot.

Thoughts?
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
16,001 Posts
I agree that Detroit is in a position to make a run at acquiring Wallace, but I don't think Prince is enough of a return for Rasheed. He's a nice player, but nothing special. The rest of the pieces are garbage. If the Pistons sent a couple of 1sts, it gets closer. Mehmet + Prince would get it done IMO.

As to this deal: no, thanks.

Ed O.
 

·
Banned member
Joined
·
28,452 Posts
Originally posted by <b>BLAZER PROPHET</b>!
I agree with Ed O. In addition, why would a team with Ben Wallace want Rasheed? It's a thought, but that's all.
because Ben Wallace sucks on offense?

Another reason, if they have Rasheed, then the opponent actually has to pay attention to their PF spot.

They can either have B Wallace on Duncan or Webber or Shaq, or R Wallace on those guys.

Defense wins you championships.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
5,637 Posts
Discussion Starter · #5 ·
Originally posted by <b>Ed O</b>!
I agree that Detroit is in a position to make a run at acquiring Wallace, but I don't think Prince is enough of a return for Rasheed. He's a nice player, but nothing special. The rest of the pieces are garbage. If the Pistons sent a couple of 1sts, it gets closer. Mehmet + Prince would get it done IMO.

As to this deal: no, thanks.

Ed O.
The Pistons could send you the Milwaukee first rounder that they own. I'm not sure why you would want the Pistons' own first rounders since late first round picks are almost always terrible.

Also you aren't getting Okur, dream on. One of the main points of the deal for Detroit is clearing cap space to resign him. Cap space that you won't have until NEXT summer, by the way, so Mehmet would be gone this summer, that hardly seems worthwhile.

And with the trade deadline approaching you guys aren't in much of a bargaining position, it looks like the best you are getting offered are scraps like Van Horn. Trust me I have laughed at every single person who has you trading away Wallace for bad contracts like Battie and try to justify it by saying "Who would you rather have, Battie, or nothing when Wallace walks." But in this case it is valid, you are getting no bad contracts and are at least getting some return on Sheed.

To be a good team you don't just need stars like Zach, you need ROLE PLAYERS. Look at all the role players who have played key roles on championship teams, guys like Bruce Bowen, Robert Horry, Carl Herrera, these guys are so underrated it's sad. To be a really good team I am convinced you need a very good perimeter defender and Ruben Patterson is just not good enough. Prince is.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
11,878 Posts
I disagree, I think we are in a god position with Wallace as the deadline approaches.

1) Team wanting to push over the edge for that title contention will up the offers for him
2) We can just keep him and get the $17 mill salary dump instead of taking on worthless players and bad contracts
3) Then we can resign him or a S&T for a player(s) that are better $ to the value ratio.


we certianly are not going to give Detroit Sheed and only have Okur for a few months only to see him walk away. Sheed is our best overall player
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
3,654 Posts
Fine then ArtestFan....Send us Prince, Mil #1 and the rights to Delfino, along with the rest of the cap filler. That is bare minumum return for Sheed IMO.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
4,411 Posts
I'd want Prince+both 1st rounders or Prince+1 first rounder+Delfino


Also, no to Cambell...make it all expiring contracts instead(Hubert Davis+Sura+Hunter+Zelly)
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
5,637 Posts
Discussion Starter · #10 ·
Originally posted by <b>ThatBlazerGuy</b>!
I'd want Prince+both 1st rounders or Prince+1 first rounder+Delfino


Also, no to Cambell...make it all expiring contracts instead(Hubert Davis+Sura+Hunter+Zelly)
I think Prince, Delfino, and the Milwaukee first rounder is very fair. Unfortunately Detroit will not do it wirth Davis and Hunter instead of Campbell, they need the cap room from Elden so that they can re-sign Okur. I don't know why it's so important to you since you won't have cap space until 2005 anyway, why would you complain about getting a year and a half of a pretty good backup center (MAJOR upgrade over Stepania), instead of two complete garbage players that you would waive instantly.
 

·
Top Of The Pops
Joined
·
27,472 Posts
Originally posted by <b>ArtestFan</b>!

To be a good team you don't just need stars like Zach, you need ROLE PLAYERS.
Question: Why is Portland always the team, in other fans' opinions, that should trade down for these precious, important role-players?

How about this? We give the Pacers some role-players for Jermaine O'Neal? After all, ArtestFan, you don't just need stars like Ron Artest to be good...you need role-players. Right? ;)

Somehow, I'll bet trading down for role-players doesn't make as much sense when it's your best players being bartered for.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
16,001 Posts
Originally posted by <b>Minstrel</b>!

Question: Why is Portland always the team, in other fans' opinions, that should trade down for these precious, important role-players?
No doubt.

The Blazers actually already have decent role players in Jeff McInnis (would be one of the top backup 1's in the NBA if we had a good PG), Ruben Patterson (one of the top defensive and energy guys at the swing position off the bench in the NBA), Person (a top marksman who can bust a zone).

Role players are easy to find. It's the stars that are tough. When a team trades one, even when that star is as criticized as Rasheed, the team needs to get value back, and quantity doesn't make up for quality.

Ed O.
 
G

·
Originally posted by <b>Trader Bob</b>!
Sheed is our best overall player

Since when? Are you not watching the same games I am? Sheed is clearly NOT our best overall player. He has quit on this team. Trade him now, or worse things will result because of his negative force in the locker room.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
5,637 Posts
Discussion Starter · #14 ·
Question: Why is Portland always the team, in other fans' opinions, that should trade down for these precious, important role-players?
You clearly already know the answer(s) to this question because you are a smart guy and Jermaine O'Neal is such a horrible comparison that I can't believe you would make it in good faith. But I'll answer it anyway.

1. Justified or not (I think not) Portland players in general, and Rasheed Wallace in particular, have a unique reputation for being cancers. There are baggage issues that will prevent any team from wanting to make Wallace the centerpiece of the franchise, and his trade value is such that you will not get a star in return.

2. Wallace is declining and no one seriously expect that he'll ever make the All-Star team again. If you are going to trade him for younger players then obviously they will be less talented ones. It's not like I'm suggesting you trade Zach for role players.

I'll turn it around on you.

Question: Why do every team's fans hesitate to trade away their upcoming free agents when it is highly likely that they will otherwise lose them for nothing.

I bet GSW fans wish they had traded Arenas. I wish we had traded Brad Miller before the deadline, look at the trash we sign-and-traded him for. :dead:

Oh and I don't consider Ron Artest a star, he is not offensively talented enough to be one. Jermaine O'Neal is our star. Artest is the greatest role player in the NBA. :yes:
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
5,637 Posts
Discussion Starter · #15 ·
Originally posted by <b>Ed O</b>!

The Blazers actually already have decent role players in Jeff McInnis (would be one of the top backup 1's in the NBA if we had a good PG), Ruben Patterson (one of the top defensive and energy guys at the swing position off the bench in the NBA), Person (a top marksman who can bust a zone).

Role players are easy to find. It's the stars that are tough. When a team trades one, even when that star is as criticized as Rasheed, the team needs to get value back, and quantity doesn't make up for quality.

Ed O.
Actually that is one of the least talented collections of role players in the NBA and you are very very thin. Only Person compares favorably with what other teams have. Name another team with worse ones besides the Magic, the Wizards, and the Bulls. I'm not trying to be mean-spirited or anything, but I can't imagine Slavko Vranes being on the active roster of any other team.

Good role players like Prince are not so easy to find, who couldn't use a starting small forward with great defense and who is young. James Posey got the entire MLE even in a saturated free agent market and IMO Prince is better.

Prince does not have star potential and I have laughed at Pistons fans who say he does, normally I would agree with you about trading quality for quantity. But there are special factors in play here as I explained, and I see no better offers on the table.
 

·
Top Of The Pops
Joined
·
27,472 Posts
Originally posted by <b>ArtestFan</b>!


You clearly already know the answer(s) to this question because you are a smart guy and Jermaine O'Neal is such a horrible comparison that I can't believe you would make it in good faith.
It was an exaggeration, but the point remained. It's always easier and more fun to imagine other teams trading their best players for spare parts.

Rarely do people with these proposals react kindly to the idea of giving up anyone they value for spare parts.

1. Justified or not (I think not) Portland players in general, and Rasheed Wallace in particular, have a unique reputation for being cancers. There are baggage issues that will prevent any team from wanting to make Wallace the centerpiece of the franchise, and his trade value is such that you will not get a star in return.
If so, Portland's best bet is to re-sign Wallace for less than they are currently paying or let him walk for nothing.

Wasting all that cap space ($17 million) on spare parts is the worst thing one can do, in terms of the long-term health of the franchise.

Question: Why do every team's fans hesitate to trade away their upcoming free agents when it is highly likely that they will otherwise lose them for nothing.
I wasn't aware that most fans hesitate. If so, it's probably because they like their free agent and expect to re-sign them.

In my case, it's because I don't expect to get fair value back for Wallace and I'm not prepared to take back $17 million in contracts of inferior players. I'm much more prepared to, as I said, re-sign Wallace for much less or let him walk. Let Wallace and Person walk, let Stoudamire walk after next season and Portland can get significantly under the cap while still having Zach Randolph and Qyntel Woods.

That's much preferable to getting back $17 million of role-players and staying over the cap.

And Golden State / Arenas is a bad example. Golden State had no reasonable chance to re-sign Artest due to not possessing his Bird rights, plus losing him didn't open up significant cap room for them. Precisely the opposite, on both points, from Portland's situation with Wallace.
 

·
Top Of The Pops
Joined
·
27,472 Posts
Originally posted by <b>ArtestFan</b>!

Good role players like Prince are not so easy to find, who couldn't use a starting small forward with great defense and who is young. James Posey got the entire MLE even in a saturated free agent market and IMO Prince is better.
Such role-players one can pick up fairly easily by offering full MLEs, when over the cap. Stars and superstars can't be picked up so easily.

Right now Portland is thin, because they're in cost-cutting mode and cleaning house. When Portland decides to start spending again, MLEs and good drafting will net excellent role-players (or a star, if lucky in drafting).
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
5,637 Posts
Discussion Starter · #18 ·
Originally posted by <b>Minstrel</b>!
Portland's best bet is to re-sign Wallace for less than they are currently paying or let him walk for nothing.

Wasting all that cap space ($17 million) on spare parts is the worst thing one can do, in terms of the long-term health of the franchise.
:whofarted

Prince and Delfino make miniscule salaries and so will Milwaukee's pick. The rest of the guys in the proposal expire before 2005 so they waste nothing whatsoever. Did you read my justification of the trade?

Edit: I agree with you that re-signing Wallace is the only sensible alternative to a trade such as this one. Paul Allen should have a meeting with Nash and if Nash ever mentions Keith Van Horn or Antawn Jamison then he should be fired on the spot. Also you don't let a guy this valuable walk for nothing.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
4,411 Posts
Artest Fan, i for one like this tradae. IMO the blazers will not be able to get as much as they believe they will in return for a S&T this summer. In this trade we get two younng and CHEAP players, a nice draft pick and expiring contracts.

Why the hell not it aint like Sheed is gonna net us T-Mac or any other good player through a S&T.

If any blazer fan has an idea of a player we could possibly get through a S&T for sheed this summer, please post it in this thread cuz honestly i dont get how a player with a 17 million expiring contract gains more value AFTER he is resigned for a long amount of years.
 

·
Top Of The Pops
Joined
·
27,472 Posts
Originally posted by <b>ArtestFan</b>!

Prince and Delfino make miniscule salaries and so will Milwaukee's pick. The rest of the guys in the proposal expire before 2005 so they waste nothing whatsoever. Did you read my justification of the trade?
I did, but I guess I missed the fact that the other contracts all expire by 2005.
 
1 - 20 of 30 Posts
Top