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Discussion Starter #1
Murrays on the block however it appears that there are not a whole lot of takers. C'mon the guy scored 16.6 pts a game last year and shoots 42% from 3 I'd think that someone would be able to use him and he is locked into a contract for the next 4 years for 22 mil. Which is not alot of money for someone with his ability.
 

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Lamond Murray is a good player who is very underrated. The only thing about him is he has been inconsistent throughout the years and is aging. I feel he is worth the money though and a young team should attempt to sign him.
 

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Four ways to get rid of Lamond Murray (and others)...

I agree that the dude (Lamond Murray, that is) is a solid player with a totally reasonable contract. And I agree that the team may not find a taker. Why not just keep him? And start Darius Miles at PF? Miles is too small to play PF in the West, but in the East, it's not such a reach. He'd certainly be an upgrade at PF over the likes of Tyrone Hill or Chris Mihm! But he WOULDN'T be an upgrade at SF over Murray! Not YET, anyway!

Why not start Murray and Miles rather than trade Murray for nothing special and start Miles and Hill/Mihm?

I've been trying to imagine what team would be willing to give the Cavs something decent for Murray. These are the only four possibilities that I could come up with, take a look:

TRADE POSSIBILITY #1! Lamond Murray, Tyrone Hill, Chris Mihm, and Jumaine Jones to the Rockets; Glen Rice, Moochie Norris, and Kenny Thomas to the Cavs

RATIONALE. Glen Rice's contract sucks ($9.5 mil in 2002-03, then $10.4 in 2003-04, then he's a goner), but he'll be gone after two years, while Murray is signed on for another four years. Tyrone Hill and Chris Mihm are both pretty terrible, neither one fits into the Cavs' longterm plans. Jumaine Jones probably isn't going to be re-signed after next season. Moochie Norris would play plenty of minutes for the Cavs, he could even start at PG (Wagner could start at SG, Davis could either be let go or could come off the bench), while Thomas would be a much better player in the East than in the West, since he's a little undersized (nice scorer, though). Murray would give the Rockets a solid starter at SF, which they currently don't have (Griffin is more of a PF, while Nachbar probably isn't ready to start). The Rockets would also be able to avoid the luxury tax next season with this deal--Steve Francis will need to be maxed out, and when that happens, the Rockets will be in luxury tax territory because of Glen Rice's contract. HOWEVER, if they dumped Rice for Murray and let Tyrone Hill go after next season, they'd AVOID the luxury tax.

The lineups for both teams:

Houston

PG Steve Francis
SG Cuttino Mobley
SF Lamond Murray--Eddie Griffin--Jumaine Jones
PF Maurice Taylor--Tyrone Hill--Chris Mihm--Jason Collier
C Yao Ming--Kelvin Cato

Cleveland

PG Moochie Norris--Bimbo Coles
SG Dajuan Wagner--Ricky Davis
SF Darius Miles--Glen Rice
PF Kenny Thomas--Carlos Boozer
C Zydrunas Ilgauskus--DaSagana Diop

TRADE POSSIBILITY #2! Lamond Murray, Bimbo Coles, and Nick Anderson to the Pacers; Jonathan Bender, Austin Croshere, Kevin Ollie (sign-and-trade), Primoz Brezec, and Jamison Brewer to the Cavs

The Pacers AIN'T gonna be able to re-sign all their free agents after next season, so they need to decide who they plan on keeping and who they plan on letting go. These guys are all free agents: Reggie Miller, Jermaine O'Neal, Brad Miller, Jeff Foster, Jonathan Bender, and Ron Artest. They can't afford to re-sign all of them--AND, if they don't find somebody to take Austin Croshere off their hands, they won't be able to re-sign more than THREE of them! Re-signing O'Neal, Brad Miller, and Reggie Miller will put the payroll right at $50 mil. HOWEVER, if they get rid of Croshere--which they could do if they threw in Jonathan Bender, who probably isn't ever going to turn into a star in the first place--they'd be able to re-sign O'Neal, both Millers, Foster, AND Artest. And Murray would play. The Cavs, of course, would have to swallow Croshere's contract, but they'd get Bender in return, who would be given an opportunity to play plenty of minutes. Who knows, maybe Bender WILL turn into a star?

Indiana

PG Jamaal Tinsley--Bimbo Coles
SG Reggie Miller--Lamond Murray--Fred Jones
SF Al Harrington--Ron Artest
PF Jermaine O'Neal
C Brad Miller--Jeff Foster

Cleveland

PG Dajuan Wagner--Kevin Ollie--Jamison Brewer
SG Ricky Davis
SF Jonathan Bender--Jumaine Jones--Austin Croshere
PF Darius Miles--Tyrone Hill--Chris Mihm--Carlos Boozer
C Zydrunas Ilgauskus--DaSagana Diop--Primoz Brezec

TRADE POSSIBILITY #3! Lamond Murray, Tyrone Hill, and Chris Mihm to the Bulls; Travis Best (sign-and-trade), Eddie Robinson, Marcus Fizer, and Fred Hoiberg to the Cavs

RATIONALE: The Bulls desperately want to dump Robinson's contract on SOMEBODY, they need some help inside, and they could use another shooter/small forward-type. Best would get an opportunity in Cleveland, and he'll come cheap, Hoiberg is included as filler (his contract is up after next season), Fizer would get an opportunity, and Eddie Robinson, well, that's the thing, I don't like this guy, but I GUESS he fits into the Cavs' new ultra-athletic super-raw no-skills totally-undisciplined turnover-prone team philosophy!

Bulls

PG Jay Williams--Roger Mason
SG Trenton Hassell--Jamal Crawford
SF Jalen Rose--Lamond Murray
PF Tyson Chandler--Tyrone Hill--Chris Mihm--Lonny Baxter
C Eddy Curry--Dalibor Bagaric--Michael Ruffin

Cavs

PG Dajuan Wagner--Travis Best--Bimbo Coles
SG Ricky Davis--Fred Hoiberg
SF Darius Miles--Eddie Robinson
PF Marcus Fizer--Jumaine Jones--Carlos Boozer
C Zydrunas Ilgauskus--DaSagana Diop

TRADE POSSIBILITY #4! Lamond Murray, Tyrone Hill, Chris Mihm, and Bimbo Coles to the Grizzlies; Stromile Swift, Jason Williams, and Michael Dickerson to the Cavs

RATIONALE: Jerry West doesn't like Swift, and he'll give him to ANYBODY who would be willing to take the unwanted longterm contracts of Jason Williams and Michael Dickerson. West just wants to clear some payroll, and to get it cleared as soon as possible, so he can start getting some REAL players.

Grizzlies

PG Earl Watson--Bimbo Coles--Brevin Knight
SG Wesley Person--Gordon Giricek
SF Shane Battier--Lamond Murray
PF Pau Gasol--Drew Gooden--Tyrone Hill
C Lorenzen Wright--Chris Mihm--Tony Massenburg--Cezary Trybanski--Robert Archibald

Cavs

PG Jason Williams
SG Dajuan Wagner--Ricky Davis--Michael Dickerson
SF Darius Miles--Jumaine Jones
PF Stromile Swift--Carlos Boozer
C Zydrunas Ilgauskus--DaSagana Diop

PEOPLES! If anybody has any better ideas, let's hear them!

AND! Which of the four trade scenarios I've posted here seems like the best bet for the Cavs?
 

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that had to take a while... some seem good but the positions don't really line up, but they can trade after as well but......

I think the main thing the Cavs need to notice is that they have Wagner and Miles starting, that has to be solid. So with that they have Murray AND Davis on the bench? Davis will probably get around Lamond's contract from somebody, but they can' be paid that and be on the bench, especially with the parsimonious people running them. If any trade goes down, i would think that Cavs would package these two and get one good play in return, but no one reallys needs both guys.

Maybe both for Wally and filler? same problem again, probably worse... They need a passing PG and both 4 and 5 are barren. I like your stromile/Williams idea even thou JWill shoots a lot too.
E-rob trade doesn't make sense since the Cavs would just be in the Bulls position of regreting it and Fizer cannot play PF. But trading with chicago is a good chance since they covet Ricky Davis. ur houston trade seems good too since they have a lot of PFs and need space and a good starter at SF till their rookie develops.

Spurs don't have much to offer besides Parker but would definitely benefit from Ricky and Murray...
perhaps parker/smith for davis/murray/filler? probably not again...

and then we have New Orleans... they have a lot of F 3/4s and 4/5s and i doubt they see wesley as part of the Baron Davis future... maybe Magloire/Wesley and filler. Wesley can play PG, magloire can fill in the PF. Hornets get exciting Davis' in the backcourt putting Mash in his real position permenately and Lamond off bench but that filler needs to be good money since the hornets would be in trouble with the cap and they just got courtney.
just my thoughts
 

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:eek: How do you come up with this? Good Job! Anyway..I like #4 the best out of those trades. But here is what I think the Grizz should have as their roster

PG Earl Watson--Bimbo Coles--Brevin Knight
SG Shane Battier--Wesley Person--Gordon Giricek
SF Drew Gooden--Lamond Murray
PF Pau Gasol--Chris Mihm--Tyrone Hill
C Lorenzen Wright----Tony Massenburg--Cezary Trybanski--Robert Archibald



That way they have more Guard depth and clear up the big man situation a little bit more. Plus I would love the lineup of Battier-Gooden-Gasol
 

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Originally posted by <b>Turtle219</b>!
I think the main thing the Cavs need to notice is that they have Wagner and Miles starting, that has to be solid. So with that they have Murray AND Davis on the bench? Davis will probably get around Lamond's contract from somebody, but they can' be paid that and be on the bench, especially with the parsimonious people running them. If any trade goes down, i would think that Cavs would package these two and get one good play in return, but no one reallys needs both guys.
I still don't know why you can't go with this starting lineup:

PG Dajuan Wagner
SG Ricky Davis
SF Lamond Murray
PF Darius Miles
C Zydrunas Ilgauskus

I think they should just keep him for themselves.

Maybe both for Wally and filler? same problem again, probably worse... They need a passing PG and both 4 and 5 are barren.
I can't imagine Kevin McHale trading Wally World for Lamond Murray, won't happen. PLUS, the Cavs are trying to avoid taking on payroll, and Wally World is already asking for a max contract.

I like your stromile/Williams idea even thou JWill shoots a lot too.
I actually like this trade for the Grizz, it's a great way to dump JWill and Dickerson, and I don't think Swift will ever turn into a good player.

E-rob trade doesn't make sense since the Cavs would just be in the Bulls position of regreting it and Fizer cannot play PF.
No doubt!

But trading with chicago is a good chance since they covet Ricky Davis.
Do they? I'll keep that in mind.

ur houston trade seems good too since they have a lot of PFs and need space and a good starter at SF till their rookie develops.
Yeah, I think Moochie, like Wagner and Miles and Davis, is another one of those guys who are fun to watch but who aren't particularly GOOD. His haircut alone will put people in the seats. PLUS, Wagner AIN'T a point guard!

Spurs don't have much to offer besides Parker but would definitely benefit from Ricky and Murray...
perhaps parker/smith for davis/murray/filler? probably not again...
The Spurs want to have as much cap space as possible next summer so they can sign one of those top 2003 free agents, although I've thought about Murray to the Spurs. The Spurs WON'T trade Tony Parker, his contract is FANTASTIC, plus he's a hell of a player. ALTHOUGH, Murray and Tyrone Hill for Steve Smith and some filler (Cherokee Parks, Stephen Jackson) would work for Cleveland. Would the Spurs make that deal? Maybe, since they're going to HAVE to sign SOMEBODY to play SG next offseason for them (Murray would replace Steve Smith as the starting SG, he wouldn't play SF for the Spurs), and I doubt they'll find somebody as good as Murray for such a low price (Reggie Miller or Jon Barry are two possibilities). If the Spurs made this deal, they'd STILL have enough cap room to offer a max contract to... MICHAEL OLOWOKANDI. Not Jason Kidd. They don't need Jason Kidd, they already have Tony Parker (and Speedy Claxton)--they're losing David Robinson to retirement, so they NEED a CENTER!

and then we have New Orleans... they have a lot of F 3/4s and 4/5s and i doubt they see wesley as part of the Baron Davis future... maybe Magloire/Wesley and filler. Wesley can play PG, magloire can fill in the PF. Hornets get exciting Davis' in the backcourt putting Mash in his real position permenately and Lamond off bench but that filler needs to be good money since the hornets would be in trouble with the cap and they just got courtney.
Elden Campbell is a free agent next summer, and Jamaal Magliore, like Tony Parker, has one of those incredibly great end-of-the-first-round rookie contracts that you just can't trade away. Plus, Magliore is a hell of a young player, he's already playing important minutes for one of the most pro-veteran coaches (Paul Silas) in the league, which says a lot. And the Hornets have Jamal Mashburn, so Murray wouldn't start for them. Wesley for Murray would work, but I don't know why either team would want to do that.

Thanks for the feedback, though! Keep those ideas coming!
 

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I like #4 the best. The Cavs would have a true PG and a true PF, then put Wags and Miles at their true positions of SG and SF, and they have Z and Diop to play center. I'd like to see it.

The problem with Lamond is that he's a jerk and a cancer in the Cavs locker room. I think this is a well-known fact and that it'll be hard for a team to take him.
 

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Originally posted by <b>Wilt_The_Stilt</b>!
:eek: How do you come up with this? Good Job! Anyway..I like #4 the best out of those trades. But here is what I think the Grizz should have as their roster

PG Earl Watson--Bimbo Coles--Brevin Knight
SG Shane Battier--Wesley Person--Gordon Giricek
SF Drew Gooden--Lamond Murray
PF Pau Gasol--Chris Mihm--Tyrone Hill
C Lorenzen Wright----Tony Massenburg--Cezary Trybanski--Robert Archibald



That way they have more Guard depth and clear up the big man situation a little bit more. Plus I would love the lineup of Battier-Gooden-Gason
Good call, Wilt, you're absolutely right! I like the way you think!
 

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im not sold on Murray playing SG or Darius playing PF (yet) Murray is not athletic/quick enough to guard the east SGs... but my idea of trading both murray and davis is not just cuz they need to be traded (murray wants out and davis wants a phat contract 10mil+) but more so to get rid of murray by using davis as a lure. i am pretty sure no one here think that highly of him but NBA coaches seem to love 'upside' and athleticism and he has plently of both. Davis finished the second half (when he got minutes) on a tear... (someone said he looked like Jordan... i dunno about that but he was playing great). Hes asking something like $70 over 5/6 years... but that should drop a lot.

i dont think anyone wants murray as their starting SF, let alone SG so i don't teams would want to pay his contract for a bencher. SF is the least regarded in terms of positions so i wouldn't want to take that contract unless i got something better with it...

i put Spurs since they are trying to acquire Kidd next year. This would be a great way to improve their weakest 2 points SF and SG and using parker to get rid of smith.
in 2: Kidd, Ricky Davis, Murray, TD, admiral's replacement

i then put Hornets since they are stacked front court players. i totally agree magloire's contract is cheap and he played good, but they also have Mash at SF and Lynch. Perhaps sign/trade Lee Nailon... Having the Davis' backcourt would be nice, complementing each other.

im just thinking out loud...

and yea, moochie is cool
 

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Discussion Starter #12
Are you kidding me, Davis is not asking anywhere near 10 mil a year

Originally posted by <b>Turtle219</b>!
im not sold on Murray playing SG or Darius playing PF (yet) Murray is not athletic/quick enough to guard the east SGs... but my idea of trading both murray and davis is not just cuz they need to be traded (murray wants out and davis wants a phat contract 10mil+) but more so to get rid of murray by using davis as a lure. i am pretty sure no one here think that highly of him but NBA coaches seem to love 'upside' and athleticism and he has plently of both. Davis finished the second half (when he got minutes) on a tear... (someone said he looked like Jordan... i dunno about that but he was playing great). Hes asking something like $70 over 5/6 years... but that should drop a lot.

i dont think anyone wants murray as their starting SF, let alone SG so i don't teams would want to pay his contract for a bencher. SF is the least regarded in terms of positions so i wouldn't want to take that contract unless i got something better with it...

i put Spurs since they are trying to acquire Kidd next year. This would be a great way to improve their weakest 2 points SF and SG and using parker to get rid of smith.
in 2: Kidd, Ricky Davis, Murray, TD, admiral's replacement

i then put Hornets since they are stacked front court players. i totally agree magloire's contract is cheap and he played good, but they also have Mash at SF and Lynch. Perhaps sign/ Lee Nailon... Having the Davis' backcourt would be nice, complementing each other.

im just thinking out loud...

and yea, moochie is cool


Last I heard the Cavs were offering about 15 mil over 3 years and Davis was asking about 25 mil over 4-5 years.

While I understand that there are teams that would like Davis, they do not want to give him an offer because the Cavs have let it be known that they will match.

I'd try not to trade Davis (although he may be traded next year depending on who is drafted). I like his exciting style of play. Frankly I think he was just waiting for an opportunity, he's a young guy and came out probably a little earlier than he should have but he's about ready to breakout.
 

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Food for thought... Murray wants into the west, right?
Wally World wants to be a fuul fledged star of his team, right?
Minnesota needs to shake thimgs up to stay a contender in the west ,right?
Cleveland obviosly wants to stay bottom of the barrell so they have a good shot @ Labron James right?
I dont know the #'s on this but how feasible is Murray Fo Sberciac?
 

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Discussion Starter #14
I would do that trade although I'm not sure that Wally would get the kind of money that he wants in Cleveland. I doubt that Minnesota would make that trade for Murray only.
 

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I'd like to see Murray go to the Lakers, but I know that there is no chance in hell that that deal would happen. Probably the best the Lakers would be willing to give up would be:

Cavs get: Rick Fox, Richmond (sign and trade), number one pick

Lakers get: Lamond Murray

But the Cavs would never agree to it.

I like the idea of this lineup for the Cavs next season...

Wagner
Davis
Murray
Miles
Diop or Z
 

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Damon Stoudemire

Damon Stoudemire (Port) for Lamond and Tyrone Hill works in RealGM.... does Port have Kenny Anderson too? Who else do they have at PG? Stoudemire would fit in with the "Run, Gun and Stunned" look we'll have this season....

Edit- "Oh yeah, they just traded for Antonio Daniels.... how soon I forget." Portland wouldn't do this trade unless they wanted to clear some cap-space when Tyrone's big contract ends next season.
 

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Discussion Starter #17
Originally posted by <b>Wilt_The_Stilt</b>!
:eek: How do you come up with this? Good Job! Anyway..I like #4 the best out of those trades. But here is what I think the Grizz should have as their roster

PG Earl Watson--Bimbo Coles--Brevin Knight
SG Shane Battier--Wesley Person--Gordon Giricek
SF Drew Gooden--Lamond Murray
PF Pau Gasol--Chris Mihm--Tyrone Hill
C Lorenzen Wright----Tony Massenburg--Cezary Trybanski--Robert Archibald



That way they have more Guard depth and clear up the big man situation a little bit more. Plus I would love the lineup of Battier-Gooden-Gasol
I just can't believe that the grizzlies traded for Person and are gonna have him and his 7mil a year coming off the bench
 

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Discussion Starter #18
Re: Damon Stoudemire

Originally posted by <b>Mongolmike</b>!
Damon Stoudemire (Port) for Lamond and Tyrone Hill works in RealGM.... does Port have Kenny Anderson too? Who else do they have at PG? Stoudemire would fit in with the "Run, Gun and Stunned" look we'll have this season....

Edit- "Oh yeah, they just traded for Antonio Daniels.... how soon I forget." Portland wouldn't do this trade unless they wanted to clear some cap-space when Tyrone's big contract ends next season.
Mongolmike I ordinarily agree with you but why in the world would the Cavs want Stoudemire? He is a short PG who likes to shoot just a bit too much. He really hasn't improved over the last few years and he makes a ton of money. I'd rather have an unhappy Murray than a way overpriced Stoudemire.
 

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Damon Stoudamire WON'T get traded to the Cavs

That's for SURE! Cleveland decided they didn't want to pay Andre Miller the max--Stoudamire would be making more money over the last two years of his contract than a maxed out Miller would be making in the first two years of his max-out deal! So why would Cleveland want to trade for Damon Stoudamire? Answer: THEY WOULDN'T TRADE FOR DAMON STOUDAMIRE.
 

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ok

I am properly chastized!

My thinking was the Cavs need a point, and they also need to dump wine-ey and bee-atchee Lamond and who could they get in exchange. And I know Stoudemire is a gunner.... fine. He'll fit right in with Miles and Ricky and Dajuan all hoisting up shot after shot. Mihm will finally be able to raise his rebounding average up this year because of all the long-range shots that'll be clanging off the rims!

By the way, I thought the Antonio Daniels-Lamond trade scenario sounded good.
 
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