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It's obvious that Jason Collins isn't going to cut it, and that's a foregone conclusion. The question is, what type of 4 do we need? Who would work out best? Do need an offensive threat down low who is average at rebounding and defense? Do we need a defensive and rebounding specialist with no offensive skills? It's tough to find one with all 3 positives in their game. I think with RJ returning next year, we need a Josh Boone type player. A top notch rebounder who is solid on defense and likes to clean up the glass. A player I like more, though, than Boone is Sean May. Right now, at where we're picking, he's probably my top choice. Unbelievable hands, big body, and an unbelievable rebounder. I think he could help us out a lot.
 

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Important: defense, rebounding, intelligent.

Would be nice: shot-blocking, can run the break, hit a 15 foot jump shot, can guard multiple positions (IE: can defend 4 and 5, or 3 and 4.)

unnecissary: big time scorer,

do not want: undersized, needs the ball to be productive.
 

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KMart... people often wish what they didn't have or lost.

-Petey
 

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Discussion Starter #4
I've got a name for you...Lonny Baxter.
 

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jmk said:
It's obvious that Jason Collins isn't going to cut it, and that's a foregone conclusion. The question is, what type of 4 do we need? Who would work out best? Do need an offensive threat down low who is average at rebounding and defense? Do we need a defensive and rebounding specialist with no offensive skills? It's tough to find one with all 3 positives in their game. I think with RJ returning next year, we need a Josh Boone type player. A top notch rebounder who is solid on defense and likes to clean up the glass. A player I like more, though, than Boone is Sean May. Right now, at where we're picking, he's probably my top choice. Unbelievable hands, big body, and an unbelievable rebounder. I think he could help us out a lot.
May is not a great defender and he won't declare anyway.
I think we should get a starting PF from free agency and pick one in the draft too.
Draft- Boone is my top choise too. Taft, Shelden Williams and Vazquez follow them.
FA- Marshall/SAR. There's really won't be a difference between the 2 on offense if they play for us next year because they won't have a big offensive load. However, Marshall is cheaper, a better rebounder and when he wants too he can play some good D down low. He can help us spread the floor with his jumpshot and make it easier for RJ and VC (he can finish their moves too).
 

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Strengths: A strong all around talent. Charlie excels at passing the ball, scoring from the perimeter and handling the ball on the break. His inside/outside game makes him a virtual lock for a double-double every night. His athleticism makes him an excellent rebounder and perimeter defender. Scores his points from all over; his height allows to shoot over almost everyone on the outside and also allows him take the ball down low. He's just starting to live up to his unbelievable potential.
That's Nbadraft.net's description of Charlie Villanueva, it seems to me that's what hihofink thinks we need. He's 6'11 and has a ton of potential if we can get him to play with some heart. But I think he's worth the risk of drafting. TALENT wise he reminds me of Kenyon Martin (not the same energy though)
 

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The type of player I think we need to be looking for is one who is going to play like Tyson Chandler was projected to when he was first drafted. A long, lean, active, shotblocking power forward. One with good hands(I know that's not Tyson) and when given his few opportunities a game, he will not lose the ball, and will hopefully deliver a bucket.

Here's the prime stats of the type of PF I'm looking for:

13 PPG, 10 RPG, 2.5 BPG.

Getting a player like that would make me VERY happy. We really need a good rebounder to make up for Krstic's lack of rebounding ability.
 

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Discussion Starter #8
X-JAY said:
May is not a great defender and he won't declare anyway.
I think we should get a starting PF from free agency and pick one in the draft too.
Draft- Boone is my top choise too. Taft, Shelden Williams and Vazquez follow them.
FA- Marshall/SAR. There's really won't be a difference between the 2 on offense if they play for us next year because they won't have a big offensive load. However, Marshall is cheaper, a better rebounder and when he wants too he can play some good D down low. He can help us spread the floor with his jumpshot and make it easier for RJ and VC (he can finish their moves too).
Has May said anything about him not leaving? With the performance he's putting up in the tournament and with Felton and McCants both likely leaving, I don't see any reason why he would stay.
 

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jmk said:
It's obvious that Jason Collins isn't going to cut it, and that's a foregone conclusion. The question is, what type of 4 do we need? Who would work out best? Do need an offensive threat down low who is average at rebounding and defense? Do we need a defensive and rebounding specialist with no offensive skills? It's tough to find one with all 3 positives in their game. I think with RJ returning next year, we need a Josh Boone type player. A top notch rebounder who is solid on defense and likes to clean up the glass. A player I like more, though, than Boone is Sean May. Right now, at where we're picking, he's probably my top choice. Unbelievable hands, big body, and an unbelievable rebounder. I think he could help us out a lot.

It's a foregone conclusion? Says who? Unless the Nets come up with Shareef Abdur Rahim, EVERY other suggested player, from Swift [no BBIQ, lousy defense], Marshall [bench player supreme], to possible draft choices will NOT dislodge Collins from his starting position...period. Deal with it.

Get this straight: next year's team with RJ and an improving Krstic can afford the luxury of a player who doesn't put up big numbers yet defends the hell out of the opposition team's big guys. Lots of teams, good teams, have had defensive specialists. It's too bad that Collins doesn't match the fantasy of many fans. He is effective.

You think Kidd is lieing when he says Collins should be on the all-Defensive team, that it's just words?

The Nets need a bench. The Nets need a bench. Abdur-Rahim would be great. I hope we get him, but short of that, this is a team, a coach, a GM who likes having Collins on the floor.
 

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NetIncome said:
It's a foregone conclusion? Says who? Unless the Nets come up with Shareef Abdur Rahim, EVERY other suggested player, from Swift [no BBIQ, lousy defense], Marshall [bench player supreme], to possible draft choices will NOT dislodge Collins from his starting position...period. Deal with it.

Get this straight: next year's team with RJ and an improving Krstic can afford the luxury of a player who doesn't put up big numbers yet defends the hell out of the opposition team's big guys. Lots of teams, good teams, have had defensive specialists. It's too bad that Collins doesn't match the fantasy of many fans. He is effective.

You think Kidd is lieing when he says Collins should be on the all-Defensive team, that it's just words?

The Nets need a bench. The Nets need a bench. Abdur-Rahim would be great. I hope we get him, but short of that, this is a team, a coach, a GM who likes having Collins on the floor.

I pretty much agree. Collins has been a starter here for quite a while now, and there's a reason for that. Despite the flack he gets from the message boards, he is valued highly by Frank and the Nets. It will take a very good player to unseat him as a starter.

Having said that, there are certainly some times when you will want some more athleticism out of your 4. He certainly doesn't match up well with your more perimeter-oriented 4s of the league, like Jamison or Nowitski. I like having Robinson here for instances like that, but it would be nice to get a big man who can run and jump. That could really compliment the current 4/5 rotation of Collins, Krstic and Robinson.
 

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Discussion Starter #12
NetIncome said:
It's a foregone conclusion? Says who? Unless the Nets come up with Shareef Abdur Rahim, EVERY other suggested player, from Swift [no BBIQ, lousy defense], Marshall [bench player supreme], to possible draft choices will NOT dislodge Collins from his starting position...period. Deal with it.

Get this straight: next year's team with RJ and an improving Krstic can afford the luxury of a player who doesn't put up big numbers yet defends the hell out of the opposition team's big guys. Lots of teams, good teams, have had defensive specialists. It's too bad that Collins doesn't match the fantasy of many fans. He is effective.

You think Kidd is lieing when he says Collins should be on the all-Defensive team, that it's just words?

The Nets need a bench. The Nets need a bench. Abdur-Rahim would be great. I hope we get him, but short of that, this is a team, a coach, a GM who likes having Collins on the floor.
Donyell Marshall would most definitely start over Jason Collins. Jason Collins is good for what he is, a big man off the bench.
 

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jmk said:
Donyell Marshall would most definitely start over Jason Collins. Jason Collins is good for what he is, a big man off the bench.
With scorers like Carter and RJ (and Krstic now), not sure we need a Marshall in the first 5. He could be better suited as a go-to guy in the second unit, which is his role in Toronto.
 

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Discussion Starter #14
schub said:
With scorers like Carter and RJ (and Krstic now), not sure we need a Marshall in the first 5. He could be better suited as a go-to guy in the second unit, which is his role in Toronto.
It's true, but our offense would be spread out wonderfully. Marshall's superb rebounding ability would also help our break greatly. I think Collins is starting to become overrated very much by our own fans on the defensive end. I'd take Marshall over Collins without thinking twice about it.
 

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jmk said:
Donyell Marshall would most definitely start over Jason Collins. Jason Collins is good for what he is, a big man off the bench.
Donyell Marshall has started ONE game for the Raptors this season...ONE.
 

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schub said:
He certainly doesn't match up well with your more perimeter-oriented 4s of the league, like Jamison or Nowitski. I like having Robinson here for instances like that, but it would be nice to get a big man who can run and jump. That could really compliment the current 4/5 rotation of Collins, Krstic and Robinson.
He did a nice job on Nowitzki the last time the two teams played, holding him to six points below his average. The single most underrated aspect of Collins game is that his defense IMPROVES all the time.

Players who killed him the first time around wind up being surprised the second and third time. Look at Yao Ming who Collins OWNS...the last four games over two years...10 points, 9 points, 6 points, 6 points. Someone posted that Yao has bad shooting nights against Collins...yes he has and there's a reason for that.
 

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NetIncome said:
Donyell Marshall has started ONE game for the Raptors this season...ONE.
Marshall can't start because that would mean Bosh would either play center or come off the bench.

He's definitely a good starter in the league. He rebounds the ball well and is a good scorer. (tho he needs to stop shooting all those 3s...)
 

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crimsonice said:
Marshall can't start because that would mean Bosh would either play center or come off the bench.
But are Marshall and Bosh never on the floor at the same time? If he deserves to start, the line-up is certainly flexible enough to fit him in, no? The Nets start 2 point guards, a 2 guard and 2 centers.
 

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NetIncome said:
It's a foregone conclusion? Says who? Unless the Nets come up with Shareef Abdur Rahim, EVERY other suggested player, from Swift [no BBIQ, lousy defense], Marshall [bench player supreme], to possible draft choices will NOT dislodge Collins from his starting position...period. Deal with it.

Get this straight: next year's team with RJ and an improving Krstic can afford the luxury of a player who doesn't put up big numbers yet defends the hell out of the opposition team's big guys. Lots of teams, good teams, have had defensive specialists. It's too bad that Collins doesn't match the fantasy of many fans. He is effective.

You think Kidd is lieing when he says Collins should be on the all-Defensive team, that it's just words?

The Nets need a bench. The Nets need a bench. Abdur-Rahim would be great. I hope we get him, but short of that, this is a team, a coach, a GM who likes having Collins on the floor.
Collins lacks three qualities that I would want in a starting PF.

First, he struggles to finish at the rim. No disrespect, but he may be the most blocked player in the league. When he goes up for a layup in traffic its a bonus if the basketball goes in the hoop. Now the Nets do not need a scorer from their 4, but that 4 needs to be able to finish at the rim....especially with great passers in Carter and Kidd.

Secondly, although Collins does box out, he does not go up and grab rebounds.....I forget the quote that K-Mart once said, but he refered to something charles barkley once told him. Not to just box out, but go up and grab the basketball before anyone else.

Krstic and Collins may be the worst rebounding PF/C combination...and although Collins boxes out very well, if Krstic is the starting center, then the starting PF must be able to go up and grab rebounds. 6.5 boards per game from the PF slot is not good enough if the starting center only grabs 6 boards too.

Lastly, Collins needs to be able to stick that 15 jump shot consistantly....and although he has improved it, he has not been consistant this season.

On a side note, Collins defense is becoming overated by Nets fan. He is a very good defender. He is not great. His defense is not the level of K-mart. So defense from the PF position can be improved. Collins does not deserve defensive honors. Duncan, Wallace, Wallace, K-mart, Garnett, Okafor, Camby, Kirilenko, Murphy are just the PF off the top of my head that are better defenders than Collins....

so although a very good defender. It is still a quality that could possibly be upgraded in the offeseason.
 
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