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last year until kobe went out and rudy t quit we were looking way better than we do so far this year...

people forget for a while last year we were actually the 6th seed!

i can't understand why we can't play atleast at that level considering an improved Kobe, lamar, a real pg, and the addition of phil jackson...

we were playing better as a kobe isolation, no defense, 3 pt launching team last year
 

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Look at the Caron Butler trade. At least then we were a fastbreak threat with Caron on the wing and Odom playing some 4. Plus Atkins was a good shooter, we started guys that could hit the open shot. Every starter was a double-digit scorer.

Now we are dependent on Kobe for offense and for guys like Parker and George to have amazing games. Odom is too busy setting up others.

It would be nice to have Odom running the point with Kobe, Butler, Akins, George and Parker alongside him.
 

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The Black Mamba
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Odom needs to be aggressive on offense. He needs to play like he did when he had 5 straight points for the Lakers when they played against the Clippers.
 

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Jamel Irief said:
It would be nice to have Odom running the point with Kobe, Butler, Akins, George and Parker alongside him.
That's only if you don't care at all about defense.
 

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EHL said:
That's only if you don't care at all about defense.
Not really. The non-defense team of last year when healthy was better than this one was it not? We could of had a power forward defender just as good as Kwame in free agency instead of wasting half of it on Rick Fox of 2004.
 

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Lamar is never gonna be more aggresive. He's been in the league many years now and is basically playing the same as he ever was.
 

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I agree with Jamel. This team is better coached and plays better D but you lost a good offensive player in Atkins. An Atkins/Parker would actually be pretty darn good at PG. And you've basically given up 10 ppg by the Brown for Butler Trade. Add that w/o Odom in the post the Lakers have no post scoring threat (again other then Kobe I suppose but do you really want him taking all the shots?), this is a much worse offensive team that is a bit better on D.

That being said I have great respect for Phil Jackson and never does it seem does he let his team believe they are out of any game. This team might easily make the playoffs barring injuries and whether other teams like Seattle can get their acts together
 

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we need some shooters on this team seriously

our best shooter is brian cook for crying out loud
 

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Jamel Irief said:
Not really. The non-defense team of last year when healthy was better than this one was it not?
No, not really.

We could of had a power forward defender just as good as Kwame in free agency instead of wasting half of it on Rick Fox of 2004.
Who?
 

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Lamar is the type of player that brings out his best when he has that killer-instinct just like Kobe and players such as Ron Artest. Against the Clippers the other night I applauded Lamar because he just wanted to stick it to the Clippers and didn't care if Kobe had his hands out as if Lamar was going to pass it to him.
leidout said:
Lamar is never gonna be more aggresive. He's been in the league many years now and is basically playing the same as he ever was.
 

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EHL said:
No, not really.
Look at the record. I assume you prefer defense to wins then?

I haven't looked that hard, because really its a waste of time to talk about who we SHOULD of went after. But I would take Reggie Evans for example over Kwame. He would of probably happily signed for 2 years, 10 million. And at the time of the draft Sean May was my second choice after Jarret Jack.
 

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Bartholomew Hunt said:
Just as I have said several times, right now we are worse than last year's team. I believe by the end of the season, we will be a much better group than last year's, even if we have a similar record.
Agreed.
 

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Jamel Irief said:
Look at the record. I assume you prefer defense to wins then?
Um, last week you were saying that record didn't matter, so this is hypocritical to say the least. And at 4-5 their record actually projects out to more wins than last season.

Considering Parker, Kwame and Odom are all learning new roles in the offense I'd say they're doing just fine. Many people here including myself said their offensive execution would likely be slow out of the gate, and it has been. Besides, the point differential this season versus last season is quite a bit better and yes, a good defense is always better than a good offense. Look at the last 15+ years of NBA history. I'll take post defense versus pointless 20 point efforts from Caron Butler that have no effect on the outcome of games.

I haven't looked that hard, because really its a waste of time to talk about who we SHOULD of went after. But I would take Reggie Evans for example over Kwame. He would of probably happily signed for 2 years, 10 million. And at the time of the draft Sean May was my second choice after Jarret Jack.
Not only is Reggie Evans not a better defender than Kwame, but he's worse fit in the triangle than Kwame Brown is. $10M for someone who is nothing but a very good rebounder is a huge waste of money on a team that isn't getting beat on the boards. And I'm not sure why you're bringing up Sean May, he was a pourous defender in college and hasn't proven otherwise his rookie season.
 

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seattle would of matched any offer reggie evans received anyways.

if we were talking about bigs fitting into the triangle, it would of been to bring back horace grant or charles oakley than kwame brown

but... if we actually did, how would the lakers fan handle this?
 

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EHL said:
Um, last week you were saying that record didn't matter, so this is hypocritical to say the least. And at 4-5 their record actually projects out to more wins than last season.
Yes, I said it didn't matter when you referred to the end of the season when Odom and Mihm were out and Hamblem threw in the towel. The 4-6 record is inferior to what they started with last year. The season went downhill when Rudy quit and everyone proceeded to become injured.

Considering Parker, Kwame and Odom are all learning new roles in the offense I'd say they're doing just fine. Many people here including myself said their offensive execution would likely be slow out of the gate, and it has been. Besides, the point differential this season versus last season is quite a bit better and yes, a good defense is always better than a good offense. Look at the last 15+ years of NBA history. I'll take post defense versus pointless 20 point efforts from Caron Butler that have no effect on the outcome of games.
Tonight is a perfect example of what a luxury Butler and Atkins would of been. Odom gets in foul trouble and Parker, George and Profit are still incapable of creating offense. Would of been nice to have that kind of firepower off the bench. Instead Kobe trusted no one and threw up a bunch of crap in the final 5 minutes.

Not only is Reggie Evans not a better defender than Kwame, but he's worse fit in the triangle than Kwame Brown is. $10M for someone who is nothing but a very good rebounder is a huge waste of money on a team that isn't getting beat on the boards. And I'm not sure why you're bringing up Sean May, he was a pourous defender in college and hasn't proven otherwise his rookie season.
Kwame is non-existant in the triangle. Gary Vitti can do as much for that offense as he does. He does nothing offensively. He doesn't even set good picks, it's why he lost playing time to Michael Ruffin. Eddie Jordan was no fool. I brought up May because he would contribute a lot more to the team than Brown.
 

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Jamel Irief said:
Yes, I said it didn't matter when you referred to the end of the season when Odom and Mihm were out and Hamblem threw in the towel. The 4-6 record is inferior to what they started with last year. The season went downhill when Rudy quit and everyone proceeded to become injured.
I can live with those reasons. Now that they just lost to the Bulls, the record doesn't project out any better. We'll see as the season goes on.

Tonight is a perfect example of what a luxury Butler and Atkins would of been. Odom gets in foul trouble and Parker, George and Profit are still incapable of creating offense. Would of been nice to have that kind of firepower off the bench. Instead Kobe trusted no one and threw up a bunch of crap in the final 5 minutes.
Um, tonight is a perfect example of what happened last season when you ask Odom to play power forward for too long; foul trouble and porous interior defense, yet you want Matador Chucky and Matador Caron instead to make the defense even worse? Their firepower with Chucky and Butler wouldn't have mattered a lick because they would have ended up giving back all that offense on the other end of the floor. Basketball is a 2-way street.

Kwame is non-existant in the triangle.
Yes, as Reggie Evans would be.

Gary Vitti can do as much for that offense as he does. He does nothing offensively. He doesn't even set good picks, it's why he lost playing time to Michael Ruffin. Eddie Jordan was no fool. I brought up May because he would contribute a lot more to the team than Brown.
When he was getting starter minutes Kwame scored 11 ppg on 49% shooting and took 8 shots to do it in Washington, it really shouldn't be hard for the Lakers to get him those 8 shots per game at the same clip. For whatever reason he's scoring at an unusally low rate than his normal per minute averages. Whether it's him not being comfortable in the tri or just being confused, who really knows. I'll conclude he's a bust after quite a bit more than 9 games, I don't jump to conclusions without larger sample sizes.
 

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9 games? try 4 years...he would have shown SOMEHTING by now. Frye shows more skill and heart than kwame...and he wasn't drafted #1. kwame is not only putting up crappy stats, he is showing no signs of improvement after 4YEARS in the L. he doesn's have any fundamentals. and judging from his past attitude problems...i'm not too sure he will ever lears. trade him while there is still hope...
 

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EHL said:
Um, tonight is a perfect example of what happened last season when you ask Odom to play power forward for too long; foul trouble and porous interior defense, yet you want Matador Chucky and Matador Caron instead to make the defense even worse? Their firepower with Chucky and Butler wouldn't have mattered a lick because they would have ended up giving back all that offense on the other end of the floor. Basketball is a 2-way street.
The Lakers had a 8 point lead and then let Duhon walk down the court and chuck up 3s. Sweetney was killing whoever the Lakers put on him, Odom, Mihm, Bynum... he's not a bad offensive player. Lamar got a foul on a charge and two reach-in fouls. Hardly the result of being a PF. Not sure how Caron is a much worse defender than Sasha, Odom, Profit.

Yes, as Reggie Evans would be.
Exactly my point. We could of gotten a Kwame caliber PF a lot cheaper. Caron and Chucky could of gotten us a Magloire.

When he was getting starter minutes Kwame scored 11 ppg on 49% shooting and took 8 shots to do it in Washington, it really shouldn't be hard for the Lakers to get him those 8 shots per game at the same clip. For whatever reason he's scoring at an unusally low rate than his normal per minute averages. Whether it's him not being comfortable in the tri or just being confused, who really knows. I'll conclude he's a bust after quite a bit more than 9 games, I don't jump to conclusions without larger sample sizes.
Look, I'm not saying he isn't capable of turning it around, but this was what I predicted for him and he is living down to those predictions. I'm not blaming you for not closing the book on him, but I have no reason not to.
 
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