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Discussion Starter #1
Baron Davis has never impressed Clipper fans, gave up on the team last year, came into to camp out of shape, and magically gets hurt everytime we go on a losing streak. It's never been a big deal before, because he's been the only capable PG on the team, for better or worse... But now we have Bledsoe and occasionally Gordon doing the job and doing it well! I can't see any reason to keep Davis & his crappy attitude around any longer. As badly as he did here, he's always needed to be motivated to be any good, so a change in scenery will probably both heal his knee & attitude all in one fell swoop.

Chris Kaman is our longest tenured Clipper who has always seemed like he could be a great center if he could put all the pieces together... so how long shall we continue to wait? He's regressed back to an extremely passive player, letting Blake take pretty much all the responsibility in the post for rebounding, defense and scoring. If I see Kaman pass up another point blank dunk or dribble it out for a long 2-pointer, I'll scream!

These two guys were supposed to be our team leaders, but they're not producing any positive results at all! I really think we're better off without them, it would clear up not only a huge amount of salary cap room, but also show the young guys that the organization is committed to giving them all the opprotunity they need to play at their best.

So with all that said, what kind of deals can we get for Kaman & Baron? Our biggest positions of need are SF & C.
 

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I honestly don't know about Baron, but I'm sure some kinds of team during the trade deadline would want to take a chance with him. Kaman on the other hand I'm thinking is going to go to Detroit for Prince. Kaman has already costed us 3 games this season by taking shots after missing like 4 times in a row, NOT DUNKING THE BALL, and not playing good defense on the other side. I'll say this though, this is the first time in a long time, that loss's don't bother me as much. Eric Bledoe is the real deal, Blake is only going to get better, and Eric is turning into a top 10 guard in the league.
 

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I never thought Baron Davis is a winner. He is talented and could've been a winner but I guess he never cared enough.

As soon as Clippers gets rid of Davis (Kaman might be a role player/backup) they could set new heights.
 

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I wouldn't move Kaman, he'll have far more value as an expiring contract attached to a useful player next year, and you're unlikely to get a better center in trade this year anyway. Baron just needs to go, as he no longer makes sense for a young team on a completely different timetable. Ideally you'd get an expiring contract and a late first rounder for him, but there aren't too many teams that make natural trade partners. Atlanta would probably be the best fit for him, but I can't imagine they'd want to part with Jamal Crawford to take on his contract. I'd offer him to Charlotte with Jarron Collins for Nazr Mohammad's expiring and Shaun Livingston(for cap purposes) and see if Larry Brown bites on it, even though they don't have picks to trade because they owe Chicago their 2012 first.
 

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It sucks that our two highest paid players are also our most cancerous players. I can't imagine us getting anything significant for Baron Davis if he were traded. His contract is crap. We may be able to trick someone into giving us something for Kaman since he is a center, and this league always over values centers. I kind of get the impression that we will be stuck with these players, and they will continue to be starters because DTS wants to get his money's worth, and won't want to pay them to sit on the bench. With all that said, I hope they trade at least one of these guys. I really do.
 

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I wouldn't move Kaman, he'll have far more value as an expiring contract attached to a useful player next year, and you're unlikely to get a better center in trade this year anyway. Baron just needs to go, as he no longer makes sense for a young team on a completely different timetable. Ideally you'd get an expiring contract and a late first rounder for him, but there aren't too many teams that make natural trade partners. Atlanta would probably be the best fit for him, but I can't imagine they'd want to part with Jamal Crawford to take on his contract. I'd offer him to Charlotte with Jarron Collins for Nazr Mohammad's expiring and Shaun Livingston(for cap purposes) and see if Larry Brown bites on it, even though they don't have picks to trade because they owe Chicago their 2012 first.
I think you are right on both Kaman and Davis, but one thing that may help us move Baron is that he has been playing very well after the Sterling heckling went public. I expect Kaman to also play at a very high level once he returns into the lineup. I remeber last season Deandre Jordan was having a great preseason, and I think Kaman feared that his job was in jeopardy. Kaman responded with the best season of his career. I also expect the same thing to happen again since Deandre has played very well during Kaman's absence, and has even been better on the defensive end that what Kaman has shown. Maybe one of the top contenders in the east might make a move at trade deadline for Baron or Chris.
 

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Discussion Starter #7
I think you are right on both Kaman and Davis, but one thing that may help us move Baron is that he has been playing very well after the Sterling heckling went public. I expect Kaman to also play at a very high level once he returns into the lineup. I remeber last season Deandre Jordan was having a great preseason, and I think Kaman feared that his job was in jeopardy. Kaman responded with the best season of his career. I also expect the same thing to happen again since Deandre has played very well during Kaman's absence, and has even been better on the defensive end that what Kaman has shown. Maybe one of the top contenders in the east might make a move at trade deadline for Baron or Chris.
It's nice that Baron has played well lately, but given his history, he'll just stink it up again and quit on the team the moment things turn sour. The guy has always talked a big game, but has a notoriously lazy attitude. If any team wants him right now, I say make the trade.

As for Kaman, DeAndre Jordan is making him less & less important in each game. He seems like he cares, but he always misses large amounts of games per year and the team is really better off going with someone younger that can grow with Griffin & Gordon.
 

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It's nice that Baron has played well lately, but given his history, he'll just stink it up again and quit on the team the moment things turn sour. The guy has always talked a big game, but has a notoriously lazy attitude. If any team wants him right now, I say make the trade.

As for Kaman, DeAndre Jordan is making him less & less important in each game. He seems like he cares, but he always misses large amounts of games per year and the team is really better off going with someone younger that can grow with Griffin & Gordon.
Well said. Maybe by trade deadline some of the teams in contention will make a move for Baron. And as for what you said about DJ yes he has been making Kamans absence seem like less of a blow. I would keep DJ and deal Kaman for a few reasons: 1. DJ has been able to stay in the lineup for longer stretches than Kaman. I couldn't tell you if DJ just conditions himself better or isn't as brittle as Kaman. 2. Kaman has always folded in the presence of a strong power forward. He is like a 11-13 PPG guy when Elton Brand and Blake Griffin were in the lineup. 3. DJ costs less money right now. 4. DJ plays a level of defense that Kaman never has shown. 5. DJ is younger
 

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Patience is key when it comes to Baron and Kaman, because the over the next two summers they'll become expiring contacts that can be paired with the Clippers own likely top ten 2011 draft pick and, in the next summer, Minny's unprotected 2012 pick. As I see it the Clippers currently have a likely franchise guy in Griffin and a potential all-star wing in Gordon, plus plenty of young guys who should develop into a reasonable supporting cast. In order to build this roster into a true perennial contender they're going to need one more player to fill out a legitimate top three, and between now and the end of the summer of 2012 is probably when they'll have to make their move. Kaman's expiring coupled with a 2011 top ten pick and Baron's expiring coupled with a (possibly) 2012 top ten pick gives them two opportunities to strike. Whether they can add another star or squander the opportunity may be the make-or-break moment for this version of the Clippers.
 

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Discussion Starter #10
Patience is key when it comes to Baron and Kaman, because the over the next two summers they'll become expiring contacts that can be paired with the Clippers own likely top ten 2011 draft pick and, in the next summer, Minny's unprotected 2012 pick. As I see it the Clippers currently have a likely franchise guy in Griffin and a potential all-star wing in Gordon, plus plenty of young guys who should develop into a reasonable supporting cast. In order to build this roster into a true perennial contender they're going to need one more player to fill out a legitimate top three, and between now and the end of the summer of 2012 is probably when they'll have to make their move. Kaman's expiring coupled with a 2011 top ten pick and Baron's expiring coupled with a (possibly) 2012 top ten pick gives them two opportunities to strike. Whether they can add another star or squander the opportunity may be the make-or-break moment for this version of the Clippers.
The 2011 Clippers pick will probably not be top ten by the end of the season, unless they get extremely lucky with the ping pong balls. They've been winning .667 of their games since mid-December and only appear to be getting better. So being patient just means wasted time for Griffin & Gordon. These guys are ready to compete at the top level right now.

Baron is playing well at the moment (no doubt because Gordon & Griffin make it easy for him), and as the team continues to improve the draft pick keeps dropping. So why not package Baron and the draft pick to a team willing to gamble with both?

With the right deal (Wallace from Charlotte, Iguodala from Philly), this team stands a good shot at the playoffs this year and with chemistry building they can be a dark horse for the championship next year. Make the deal right now, don't waste time. Unfortunately Kaman's injury makes it very difficult to trade, but Baron is playing well right now and needs to be moved ASAP.
 

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Patience is key when it comes to Baron and Kaman, because the over the next two summers they'll become expiring contacts that can be paired with the Clippers own likely top ten 2011 draft pick and, in the next summer, Minny's unprotected 2012 pick. As I see it the Clippers currently have a likely franchise guy in Griffin and a potential all-star wing in Gordon, plus plenty of young guys who should develop into a reasonable supporting cast. In order to build this roster into a true perennial contender they're going to need one more player to fill out a legitimate top three, and between now and the end of the summer of 2012 is probably when they'll have to make their move. Kaman's expiring coupled with a 2011 top ten pick and Baron's expiring coupled with a (possibly) 2012 top ten pick gives them two opportunities to strike. Whether they can add another star or squander the opportunity may be the make-or-break moment for this version of the Clippers.
Before I say anything I think this is a great point. However, my only concern with this is approach is this...can we afford to be patient given that Griffin and Gordon will possibly base their decision to sign an extension on the help that was brought in? I think the front office should definitely try its hardest to bring a legitimate third man for this team to compliment Gordon and Griffin. Otherwise, we may be faced with Gordon and Griffin deciding to go to greener pastures. These two (Gordon and GRiffin)need to be shown that the front office is serious about bringing a team to help them out. By the way Bogg, I'm not too updated with Griffin and Gordons contracts..how much longer do we have both of them? And do you think we can possibly make those moves before the "Blake & Eric decision" creeps up on us?
 

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The 2011 Clippers pick will probably not be top ten by the end of the season, unless they get extremely lucky with the ping pong balls. They've been winning .667 of their games since mid-December and only appear to be getting better. So being patient just means wasted time for Griffin & Gordon. These guys are ready to compete at the top level right now.

Baron is playing well at the moment (no doubt because Gordon & Griffin make it easy for him), and as the team continues to improve the draft pick keeps dropping. So why not package Baron and the draft pick to a team willing to gamble with both?

With the right deal (Wallace from Charlotte, Iguodala from Philly), this team stands a good shot at the playoffs this year and with chemistry building they can be a dark horse for the championship next year. Make the deal right now, don't waste time. Unfortunately Kaman's injury makes it very difficult to trade, but Baron is playing well right now and needs to be moved ASAP.
I've thought about this myself. I think the old saying "Strike while the iron's hot" is extremely appropriate. Right now may be the best time to trade Baron, and if we wait the next shot we may have to deal him may be when his contract appeals to teams because of its "expiring" nature.
 

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I think a Kaman-for-Prince or Kaman-for-Wallace trade would be great for either party involved.

It's time for Kaman to leave the Clippers, and for DeAndre Jordan to get his chance.
 

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Honestly, I do believe that even with Baron playing good actually, you guys won't get great value for him now, especially with Charlotte now with Silas. As much that Silas loves Baron, he seems to be also liking Augustin. I can't see anything MUCH better than an Augustin/Carroll/Najera trade for Baron and Warren as a filler. Is it worth it? I really don't know.

As for Kaman, I can see a better scenario for him (something like Kaman+Aminu+protected pick for Iguodala and Hawes). Maybe Collins and Brand would like to see Kaman and Brand reunited together in Philly (add the fact that Kaman would be more dominating in East). Having Aminu instead of Iguodala may free more PT for the other Sixers wings...

Just food for thoughts here...
 

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Discussion Starter #15
Honestly, I do believe that even with Baron playing good actually, you guys won't get great value for him now, especially with Charlotte now with Silas. As much that Silas loves Baron, he seems to be also liking Augustin. I can't see anything MUCH better than an Augustin/Carroll/Najera trade for Baron and Warren as a filler. Is it worth it? I really don't know.

As for Kaman, I can see a better scenario for him (something like Kaman+Aminu+protected pick for Iguodala and Hawes). Maybe Collins and Brand would like to see Kaman and Brand reunited together in Philly (add the fact that Kaman would be more dominating in East). Having Aminu instead of Iguodala may free more PT for the other Sixers wings...

Just food for thoughts here...
Both trades sound pretty good for me, I really think just getting rid of Baron and Kaman is what's best for this team. The clips don't need great PG/C value in return, since we already have replacements at PG & C.

We've already seen Eric Bledsoe show signs of being a much better PG than Baron and he was putting up 10ppg/6ast in his 1st month as an NBA player. It's pretty reasonable to believe with more playing time he'd be able to easily improve that to 15/9. He's got the size, speed and power... just needs the experience to get a little more under control and spend more time on the court with Gordon & Griffin.

And DeAndre Jordan has completely made Kaman worthless so far. He's younger, more durable, better defensive and more motivated. Even a 100% healthy Kaman has no real place on the Clippers anymore. This said, resigning Jordan needs to be a big priority.

The ONLY position of need is SF, Aminu & Gomes are doing a respectable job, but that's the one position that really looks like we'd need a trade to improve greatly. Trading Baron & Kaman (or both) to get an all-star quality SF that defends well & doesn't always need the ball in his hands should be the #1 priority in any trade scenario. Guys like Hawes, Augustin, etc are just filler. Andre Iguodala or Gerald Wallace would be the perfect players to make that quantum leap from playoff team (despite the bad start, that's the level these guys are playing at) to contender.
 

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The 2011 Clippers pick will probably not be top ten by the end of the season, unless they get extremely lucky with the ping pong balls. They've been winning .667 of their games since mid-December and only appear to be getting better. So being patient just means wasted time for Griffin & Gordon. These guys are ready to compete at the top level right now.
However, my only concern with this is approach is this...can we afford to be patient given that Griffin and Gordon will possibly base their decision to sign an extension on the help that was brought in?
While it's true the Clips are probably going to work their way out of the top(bottom?) ten in the draft, I have a very difficult time believing that they'll win 2/3's of their games the rest of the way out. While Griffin and Gordon may be ready to compete in the playoffs, the rest of the team isn't even close to that level.

In response to the idea that the team has to be competitive right away I'll simply point to the divergent approaches taken by the Cavs and Thunder in building around young superstars. Every move the Cavs made after drafting Lebron was purely for the here and now out of the fear that he'd leave, and they were never able to put together a truly quality supporting cast because there's only so much you can do with veterans available at a discount. The first two years the Sonics/Thunder took the approach that it was okay to be awful as long as every move made sense long-term, and they stockpiled young talent and cap flexibility. Everything came together in year three when they just made it into the playoffs as the eighth seed, and only this year are they really considered one of the top clubs in their conference.

Eric Gordon is going into restricted free agency in the summer of 2012 and Blake will be a restricted free agent the summer after, meaning they can't really "get away" until the summers of 2013 and 2014, respectively, when they'd be unrestricted free agents. The Clippers front office has plenty of time to make sure that whatever deal they make is the right long-term move and not just the best one available right now. Iguodala is the right kind of idea, but I don't know that a guy with a suspect outside shot(who's also a little undersized for the 3) is the best they can do. However, I don't like the idea of Gerald Wallace at all. The guy's turning 29 this summer, isn't much of a shooter, and has spent his career playing a style of ball that'll lead to him slowing significantly as he nears and rounds 30. Look at the season-by-season stats of Shawn Marion, a similar type of player, and how he's steadily declined starting in the 07-08 season, when was......29 years old.
 

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Baron is the true case of the gift and the curse. When motivated, he does wonderful things on the court UNFORTUNATELY you just dont know how long he'll stay motivated or when he'll get into that mood. Its one of the reasons why he keeps getting traded even though he's been an integral part of some playoff teams. Now the Clips are winning again and it might look smart to keep him, but then that's a pretty risky move.
 

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The thunder have our 1st round pick this year right because of Eric Bledsoe? Is it protected?
The Thunder have the rights to the Clippers 2012 draft pick, with top 10 protection. However, I'm sure the hope is they'll be rounding into shape as a perennial playoff team next year, so the protection shouldn't be activated unless something drastic happens. The Clips also have the Wolves unprotected pick in that draft, so they'll have a first round pick that year unless Minny's is given away in a future trade.
 

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Discussion Starter #20
While it's true the Clips are probably going to work their way out of the top(bottom?) ten in the draft, I have a very difficult time believing that they'll win 2/3's of their games the rest of the way out. While Griffin and Gordon may be ready to compete in the playoffs, the rest of the team isn't even close to that level.

In response to the idea that the team has to be competitive right away I'll simply point to the divergent approaches taken by the Cavs and Thunder in building around young superstars. Every move the Cavs made after drafting Lebron was purely for the here and now out of the fear that he'd leave, and they were never able to put together a truly quality supporting cast because there's only so much you can do with veterans available at a discount. The first two years the Sonics/Thunder took the approach that it was okay to be awful as long as every move made sense long-term, and they stockpiled young talent and cap flexibility. Everything came together in year three when they just made it into the playoffs as the eighth seed, and only this year are they really considered one of the top clubs in their conference.

Eric Gordon is going into restricted free agency in the summer of 2012 and Blake will be a restricted free agent the summer after, meaning they can't really "get away" until the summers of 2013 and 2014, respectively, when they'd be unrestricted free agents. The Clippers front office has plenty of time to make sure that whatever deal they make is the right long-term move and not just the best one available right now. Iguodala is the right kind of idea, but I don't know that a guy with a suspect outside shot(who's also a little undersized for the 3) is the best they can do. However, I don't like the idea of Gerald Wallace at all. The guy's turning 29 this summer, isn't much of a shooter, and has spent his career playing a style of ball that'll lead to him slowing significantly as he nears and rounds 30. Look at the season-by-season stats of Shawn Marion, a similar type of player, and how he's steadily declined starting in the 07-08 season, when was......29 years old.
You make a lot of good points. Winning .667 of the remaining games is probably unlikely, but staying around .500 seems well within reason. Bledsoe & Jordan aren't ready for the playoffs yet, but I think a solid 25+ minutes per game will let them grow at the fastest rate possible. With Baron playing, Bledsoe isn't getting enough minutes. Kaman is just deadweight at the moment.

While you're right about the Cavs totally screwing up, they made their mistakes by trading for over the hill guys & slightly above average players. The Thunder have taken a different path and it's working out well, but they really didn't have assets like Baron and Kaman to start with. If they did, they probably would be even better than they are now. There is more than one path to the championship!

Iguodala on the Clippers would only be a 3rd scorer, at best. He's still young, athletic, very durable and even with a poor outside shot, his contributions to the team far outweigh his deficiencies. As for Wallace, you're probably right, he's taken an absolute beating throughout his career and can only slow down.

While i probably sound like i want to make a trade just for the hell of it. It really needs to be the right move, guys like Chauncey Billups are probably available, but that's just not the right move at all (even though this is exactly the kind of a move a Lebron-era Cavs team would make).
 
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