Where are all the Krause-bashers???

1599 Views 36 Replies 17 Participants Last post by BamaBull, Jun 28, 2002

BullsNews

Discussion Starter · Jun 27, 2002

It's time to start searching some archives, because it wasn't very long ago at all that half of the posts on all the Bulls' message boards were calling for Krause's head.

It's funny, I haven't read a "Krause must go" in months, but I've yet to see anyone say "I was wrong, Krause DOES know what he's doing".

21 - 37 of 37 Posts

GB

· #21 · Jun 27, 2002

Originally posted by KC
Here is a short list of Unrestricted FA's that could help us at the 4:

Scott Williams
Corie Blount
Popeye Jones
Gary Trent
Kevin Willis
Darvin Ham
Malik Rose
Donyell Marshall

That is just unrestricted, there are plenty of restricted FA's that could help us as well.... We will be fine....

Not to mention that we have the opportunity to make a trade with a valuable piece to a really nice front court player.

As said---we'll be fine.

TheOrigiBulls

· #22 · Jun 27, 2002

Krause

Guys, i dont really care for krause, hes made some boneheaded mistakes in the past(Split up the the OrigiBulls). But now look what hes doing, hes putting a team together that could possibly put the Bulls back at the top. So, I say let bygons(?) be bygons and let krause off the hook for now.

settinUpShop

· #23 · Jun 27, 2002

Krause didn't break up the Bulls!! For crying out loud, how many times must this be said!! Phil Jackson wanted Krause's job. Krause had no desire to retire nor should he be expected to. He's done a great job, and Jerry Reinsdorf knows this all to well. HE, if anyone, should be blamed for the break-up of the Bulls, because HE could have fired Krause, and given Phil Jackson the control he wanted, which in turn, MIGHT have convinced Jordan to not retire, etc. etc. Lets not forget who's at the head of this organization. Also, Jordan, according to Reinsdorf, was offered a position with the Bulls staff, just not as GM. And Reinsdorf would have been crazy to believe that Jordan could step in and replace Krause as GM. People often argue, well we would have been much more attractive to freeagents if Jordan had been dining them. Maybe that's true, but at the time that these decisions regarding the fate of the Bulls championship team were being decided, nobody knew how the new cap restrictions would level the playing field in terms of how much money teams could offer to other players - effectively making the intangibles more important.

If you want to blame management for breaking up the Bulls, then the blame falls on Reinsdorf. Remember what he did to the WhiteSox in the "White Flag" trade? Why the Press didn't pick-up on this and demand HIS head, instead of lampooning Krause, I still don't understand.

See less See more

FJ_of _Rockaway

· #24 · Jun 27, 2002

Originally posted by KC
For the 5th time, the frontcourt will be dealt with via free agency.....

Boozer is 6'9" with no ball skills or jumpshot. He will struggle...

That is total crap

Boozer is a genuine banger who has sweet post moves and is equally comfortable on the right or left block with either hand. Drop steps , dipsy do's , spin moves , baby hooks - he has a pretty full arsenal of classic post players moves

I have no idea where the BS about his size ( shortness ) came from with commentators yesterday ( DA , and Quinn Buckner ) calling him in at 6'6. This is just blantantly wrong when he plays at 6'9.

He is an old fashione power forward low post player who rebounds the ball well. Put him with a good point who feeds him in the post and he is very effective.

I do not think he is a good fit for Cleveland however as I do not see Dejuan as a classic point guard and the backups are weak.

He would have excelled with somone like Dre ( I speak in past tense as he obviously is going )

To say someone like Carlos will do OK is a joke

See less See more

Chops

· #25 · Jun 27, 2002

How is it total crap? I said he has no ball skills, which is true and he doesn't have a jumper, which is also true... Sure he could use his strength to get into position on the low block and go to work in college, but at 6'9" and being a PF, he needs more variety in his game to succeed at the next level.

He struggled to defend Lonny Baxter at times last season.....

To say he will do OK is a joke? What am I supposed to say? "He will be a great player, the best PF in the draft!" He will do OK, but PROBABLY nothing special, which is why he slipped...

Songcycle

· #26 · Jun 27, 2002

I am too busy today to go into details I have posted ad naseum at RealGM and and Sportstalk, but major kudos to those of you have stood up for Bulls management. Michael Jordan and Phil Jackson all were the ones who opted out and Scottie Pippen would have been offered major league bucks to stay if they had stayed. As it was the Bulls resigned Pippen and gave him away to Houston which eaned him many extra millions that considered how he wizzed on management for years was a favor they did that wasn't necessary.
Bulls management tried to keep everyone together, but the Jackson and MJ are the ones who said we retire and Scottie wanted out out for several years before the breakup which was a major contributing factor to Jackson and Jordan wanting out. They were sick and tired of Pippen and when Pippen started groaning during his last year and made team harmony he made them sopmewhat sorry they stuck around.
I could write volumes more, but as I said, major props to those of you who stood for management.

See less See more

FJ_of _Rockaway

· #27 · Jun 28, 2002

Originally posted by KC
How is it total crap? I said he has no ball skills, which is true and he doesn't have a jumper, which is also true...

According to you . To say it is true is a fallacy because it isnt necessarily so - just your opinion .

How can you seriously say he has no ball skills when Duke played a motion offense of which Boozer was integral in the pivot rotating the ball . He is not a point center to be sure but he is more than competent in passing the ball within the structure of an offense and any casual observer can easily see this with the naked eye.

Added to which , when he is more than comfortable using both hands to finish and execute dribble and spin moves off a post up .. I have no idea what you are talking when you talk about his about lack of ball skills.. and to be frank I do not think you do either. .

He struggled to defend Lonny Baxter at times last season.....

What a crock

Defense is a team game and the fact is Boozer was compromised upfront with the necessity to play Dunleavy at PF where he was getting up beat up by Wilcox and understandably so .

To say he will do OK is a joke? What am I supposed to say? "He will be a great player, the best PF in the draft!" He will do OK, but PROBABLY nothing special, which is why he slipped...

No you said he will struggle. You didnt say he will do OK , you said he will struggle.

Reality is ( my reality ) is that he will do OK maybe more than OK and become a pretty solid ( if not spectacular ) pro.

The variety you speak of that you think he needs - every PF in the mid to late 1st round or early 2nd round isnt a Nowitski - that's why they get drafted where they do .

It would of been no great surprise to see Boozer get taken as high as the Magic who have plenty of players outside but TMac is their best post player which says something + they have no rebounding. Taking Borchardt kind of made sense but then they turn around and deal him for Humphrey. I swear the Magic always seem to screw the pooch when it comes to handling their big men and their ability to retain them ( Ben Wallace , Brendan Hayward recent examples ) Humphrey got taken because everyone loved his hustle and his vertical ( the highest ) in Chi camp so again I will give it the benefit of the doubt.

After that no one really needed specifically to draft a low post PF/rebounder type as such and the next big man taken was Kristic by the Nets who probably needed to take more of a genuine center. Archibald to the Grizz after that was also understandable as they also needed more a PF/C combo so Boozer made more sense to me than Roger Mason Jr given our already deep position which would have freed Fizer up for trade and helped chemistry issues with Boozer teaming with Jay etc.

We needed more a genuine 3/swing man back up and I would have gone with Tamay Slay or Rasual Butler at #44.

So the reality is ( again mine ) Boozer didnt slip because of diminished skills or that he will struggle as you assert , he slipped due to circumstrances and possibly poor drafting choices by teams like Milwaukee that could have traded down into the 1st round to get him as well as Orlando that I think should have taken him given the composition of their team .

You shouldnt expect to make statements that you have without getting challenged as to their ludicrous nature.

See less See more

dkg1

· #28 · Jun 28, 2002

Re: Rick Morrissey

Originally posted by truebluefan
http://chicagosports.chicagotribune...20626morrissey.column?coll=cs-bulls-headlines

Playoffs? Lets talk .500 first

Let's face it, draft night is always an adventure for the franchise that once selected Lonny Kluttz (1970) and Chubby Cox (1978).

.

HEHE...He said Chubby Cox. That's gotta be an all time classic. For some reason, I am having a hard time (no pun intended) picturing David Stern announcing: "And with the second pick in the 1978 NBA Draft, the Chicago Bulls select Chubby Cox!"

Chops

· #29 · Jun 28, 2002 (Edited)

Originally posted by FJ_of _Rockaway

According to you . To say it is true is a fallacy because it isnt necessarily so - just your opinion .

How can you seriously say he has no ball skills when Duke played a motion offense of which Boozer was integral in the pivot rotating the ball . He is not a point center to be sure but he is more than competent in passing the ball within the structure of an offense and any casual observer can easily see this with the naked eye.

Added to which , when he is more than comfortable using both hands to finish and execute dribble and spin moves off a post up .. I have no idea what you are talking when you talk about his about lack of ball skills.. and to be frank I do not think you do either.

What a crock

Defense is a team game and the fact is Boozer was compromised upfront with the necessity to play Dunleavy at PF where he was getting up beat up by Wilcox and understandably so .

No you said he will struggle. You didnt say he will do OK , you said he will struggle.

Reality is ( my reality ) is that he will do OK maybe more than OK and become a pretty solid ( if not spectacular ) pro.

The variety you speak of that you think he needs - every PF in the mid to late 1st round or early 2nd round isnt a Nowitski - that's why they get drafted where they do .

It would of been no great surprise to see Boozer get taken as high as the Magic who have plenty of players outside but TMac is their best post player which says something + they have no rebounding. Taking Borchardt kind of made sense but then they turn around and deal him for Humphrey. I swear the Magic always seem to screw the pooch when it comes to handling their big men and their ability to retain them ( Ben Wallace , Brendan Hayward recent examples ) Humphrey got taken because everyone loved his hustle and his vertical ( the highest ) in Chi camp so again I will give it the benefit of the doubt.

After that no one really needed specifically to draft a low post PF/rebounder type as such and the next big man taken was Kristic by the Nets who probably needed to take more of a genuine center. Archibald to the Grizz after that was also understandable as they also needed more a PF/C combo so Boozer made more sense to me than Roger Mason Jr given our already deep position which would have freed Fizer up for trade and helped chemistry issues with Boozer teaming with Jay etc.

We needed more a genuine 3/swing man back up and I would have gone with Tamay Slay or Rasual Butler at #44.

So the reality is ( again mine ) Boozer didnt slip because of diminished skills or that he will struggle as you assert , he slipped due to circumstrances and possibly poor drafting choices by teams like Milwaukee that could have traded down into the 1st round to get him as well as Orlando that I think should have taken him given the composition of their team .

You shouldnt expect to make statements that you have without getting challenged as to their ludicrous nature.

I'm not even going to answer this because you insulted my intellegence. I gave my opinion on Boozer and it looks like no matter what I say, your opinion won't change. No ball skills means he has no handles and isn't adept and using the ball and his dribbling skills to create his own shots, but according to your logic, because he wasn't in an offense that LET HIM showcase these skills, I am wrong...

How can I argue with someone who believes their reality is always right? I'm done.... I refuse to argue with someone who has a "I'm right, you're an idiot" kind of attitude....

L.O.B

· #30 · Jun 28, 2002

He can't dribble and create?

KC

That's what your problem is with Boozer? No handles? Low post players shouldn't be putting the ball on the floor anyway IMO.
Then again we might be getting brainwashed by Fizer's imitation of a 4.

My number one gripe with the Bulls last season was seeing both Oakley and Fizer play at the top of the key instead of down in the blocks. Give me a 4 that goes after boards not assists or 15 foot jumpshots.

Chops

· #31 · Jun 28, 2002

Re: He can't dribble and create?

Originally posted by L.O.B
KC

That's what your problem is with Boozer? No handles? Low post players shouldn't be putting the ball on the floor anyway IMO.
Then again we might be getting brainwashed by Fizer's imitation of a 4.

My number one gripe with the Bulls last season was seeing both Oakley and Fizer play at the top of the key instead of down in the blocks. Give me a 4 that goes after boards not assists or 15 foot jumpshots.

Yes, but if he is going to be a 4 in this league he has to be able to face up his defender and create off the dribble. He won't be as successful at "bullying" the defender as he was in college. He also doesn't have range on his jumper, so he is basically lost unless he gets good post position down on the low block... Do you get what I'm saying?

L.O.B

· #32 · Jun 28, 2002

KC
You are right about Carlos needing to learn how to play with his face to the basket. Carlos has negatives but I think his positives would of been nice addditions for a team that lacks a designated rebounder and physical strength. I see a battler and a role player in Carlos and in a 2nd round pick that's what I am looking for. Damn with the likes of Jay,Jamal and Jalen shooting from outside or driving the lane, guys that can get rebounds and slam easy passes from a slashing teammate are needed. Popeye Jones would be a great addition for the Bulls for that very reason.

Machinehead

· #33 · Jun 28, 2002

Why so sulky ?

By my mentioning of reality , I qualified it properly as my reality - as in how I see it , distinct from your attestations of "truths" which were merely your opinions.

It was these opinions and how wrong they were in my view that I thought were worth making mentioning of ( and for reasons to support in my reply ) in the spirit of having a debate - not a personal attack as you took it - but a debate.

Then you try and change your meaning/wording with what you said initially when you said he would struggle and try and recover to say he will just be OK. The thread does not lie if you want to go backand check what you wrote ( unless you want to edit it out )

You and I seem to have a different take on "ball skills" too . To me, ball skills are anything that you do in the game of basketball where you touch the ball. Catch, pass, shoot and dribble ( which is just a part not the sum ) . Fair premise? You seem to look one dimensionally as to whether old fashioned low post banger Carlos Boozer has got guard skills with dribble pen.

And not getting his own shot in the context of no ball skills? What is getting fed the ball in the post , catching it , backing your man down on the dribble and post up , then putting a spin move on him , changing the ball to your left hand and controlling a soft touch finish. I , and 99.99% of the population would contend that this is in fact creating your own shot with ball control ( and therefore ball skill ) and finishing

Do not try and falsely presume my logic and accompanying view of ball skills is the same as yours - and then put words in my mouth that I never uttered "that he didnt get the opportunity to show these ball skills ( in your narrow and one dimensional view of what they are ) in the offense he played within"

Just because a traditional power forward like Carlos has no guard skills does not mean he has no ball skills . By the very nature of what traditional post play is ( if you truly understand it ) you would understand that someone that is skilled in this type of play , by the very nature of what it is , actually creates their own shot and in doing so it requires high ball skill.

Also bear in mind that in the Chi tests, Carlos actually ranked in the top few for agility and this agility / co - ordination combined with his obvious strength make him a classic old fashioned post player at the Power Forward - seemingly out of vogue these days with preferences given to skinny assed wannabes with range on their jump shots who may take 2 - 3 years to put the bulk on that they need to play in the post and then ultimately too pussy in their offensive preferences which sees them camping out at the arc most of the night firing off jumper after jumper.

Real men play the post

No need to get girly just because I take an alternate view from yours and back it up with reasons and logic - distinct from your fire from the hip assessment on Boozer that I did not consider was fair or reasoned - which is why I replied.

You do yourself no justice by being sooky about this.

See less See more

L.O.B

· #34 · Jun 28, 2002

Fj
Well said. Very few players today know how to play the post. I think we see or played a similar game.

I have my fingers crossed that MrBill, as Red calls him, has Curry chained to the blocks during practice. I don't know if I was hallucinating late last season but I thought I saw some legit post moves from Eddy.

Chops

· #35 · Jun 28, 2002

You can read my post above on this subject..... You will then see my view on "ball skills" and how they pertain to Boozer. I am not going to read through your whole diatribe because I have given my opinion, and quite frankly, Boozer isn't that important to me....

As far as me saying he would struggle, I stick to that. I was wrong because I misunderstood what you said about Boozer being just "OK". I was talking hypothetically, as in, if I said he would be just OK, am I necessarily wrong?

I understand your view on ball skills and it is my opinion that he will need to improve his face up game because he won't be as successful in the post at the next level. You can argue that point until you are blue in the face, but that is my opinion....

Thank you for criticizing me and calling me "girly". That was really deserved, I'm sure....

See less See more

k^2

· #36 · Jun 28, 2002

Boozer will struggle simple as that. First of all his offense last year was basically:watch Williams dribble, watch Williams pass then easy dunk. I don't think he will be able to create his own offense on the Cavs as easily as he did on Duke. He can't rebound and he can't play defense. Chris Young of Michigan dropped a career high 25 against Boozer, ever heard of Chris Young? His game isn't close to diversified as you said. There is a reason the guy went that late in the draft; he's not that good.

BamaBull

· #37 · Jun 28, 2002

Re: Krause

Originally posted by JayWill
Guys, i dont really care for krause, hes made some boneheaded mistakes in the past(Split up the the OrigiBulls). But now look what hes doing, hes putting a team together that could possibly put the Bulls back at the top. So, I say let bygons(?) be bygons and let krause off the hook for now.

This is kinda how I feel too....like jerry reinsdorf said, some people do not like him for his looks and personality...I am one of those. Good job in bringing this group together Krause...NOW LOSE SOME FREEKING WEIGHT!!!:laugh:

21 - 37 of 37 Posts

This is an older thread, you may not receive a response, and could be reviving an old thread. Please consider creating a new thread.