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Top 10. In my opinion:

1. Michael Jordan
2. Wilt Chamberlain
3. Oscar Robertson
4. Kareem Abdul-Jabbar
5. Hakeem Olajuwon
6. Magic Johnson
7. Larry Bird
8. Shaquille O'Neal
9. Bill Russell
10. Karl Malone.
 

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1. Michael Jordan
2. Wilt Chamberlain
3. Kareem Abdul Jabbar
4. Oscar Robertson
5. Hakeem Olajuwon
6. Larry Bird
7. Shaquille O'Neal
8. Magic Johnson
9. Bill Russell
10. John Stockton
 

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1 Michael Jordan
2 Bill Russell
3 Magic Johnson
4 Larry Bird
5 Kareem Abdul-Jabaar
6 Wilt Chamblin
7 Oscar Robertson
8 Jerry West
9 Hakeem Olajuwan
10 Shaq O'Neal
 

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how can you put Bird and West ahead of Dream?
 

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Originally posted by <b>farhan007</b>!
how can you put Bird and West ahead of Dream?
Solid agruments could defend Bird and/or West over Hakeem. Off course, the same can happen in the opposite...

About the topic: Most people would put Shaq in the All-time top-10. That´s almost a given...

Bigger question could be: will he still climb some spots?
 

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Bird is obviously ahead of Dream. He's the most dominant player
of the 80s with Magic, an ultimate smart player and leader. Both
of them are obviously choice for top 5.

You may have an argument about West.


Originally posted by <b>farhan007</b>!
how can you put Bird and West ahead of Dream?
 

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Jordan
Magic
Bird
Oscar
Wilt
Russell
Shaq
Kareem
Hakeem
West

I put Magic and Bird above Oscar, Wilt, Russell, West because they dominated in an era where the NBA was stronger, the talent in the 1980s was one of hte peaks in the leagues history.
 

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Originally posted by <b>Drewbs</b>!
Jordan
Magic
Bird
Oscar
Wilt
Russell
Shaq
Kareem
Hakeem
West

I put Magic and Bird above Oscar, Wilt, Russell, West because they dominated in an era where the NBA was stronger, the talent in the 1980s was one of hte peaks in the leagues history.
Then why do you put Shaq above Kareem? Shaq become so
dominant only after the elite centers began to decline.

Kareem 6 MVP 6 rings perennial all-NBA and all-NBA defense
1st teammer.

Where is Shaq's defense? Why Lakers were always burned
pick-and-rolls? Shaq was seriously overrated after 2001.
 

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Originally posted by <b>snowmt</b>!


Then why do you put Shaq above Kareem? Shaq become so
dominant only after the elite centers began to decline.

Kareem 6 MVP 6 rings perennial all-NBA and all-NBA defense
1st teammer.

Where is Shaq's defense? Why Lakers were always burned
pick-and-rolls? Shaq was seriously overrated after 2001.
C'mon, we all learned from Airplane that Kareem doesn't hustle on the break and only plays hard during the playoffs. ;)
 

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Originally posted by <b>Drewbs</b>!
Jordan
Magic
Bird
Oscar
Wilt
Russell
Shaq
Kareem
Hakeem
West

I put Magic and Bird above Oscar, Wilt, Russell, West because they dominated in an era where the NBA was stronger, the talent in the 1980s was one of hte peaks in the leagues history.
I always have trouble with this argument because you don't know how someone would have stepped up to the challenge if they played in a different era. I think you can only look at how much better they were than the players they played against.

And to answer the topic's question, I put him somewhere between 5-8. I don't have my top ten set, and I don't want this thread to turn into an argument about the whole top ten.
 

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Originally posted by <b>snowmt</b>!


Then why do you put Shaq above Kareem? Shaq become so
dominant only after the elite centers began to decline.

Kareem 6 MVP 6 rings perennial all-NBA and all-NBA defense
1st teammer.

Where is Shaq's defense? Why Lakers were always burned
pick-and-rolls? Shaq was seriously overrated after 2001.
Right, after 2001. He got lazy and put on the pounds, but in 2000, he was unstoppable. He played defense, he hustled for rebounds, he was in shape and had a variety of post moves. It is hard to compare different eras, so in comparison Kareem did not dominate the 70s and 80s the way Shaq has. There simply has never been an answer for him on defense otehr than hack him and send him to the line. But, it has hard to compare.
 

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If he retired today he'd be somewhere near the bottom of the top 10 players of all time. But, if he can string together a couple (or even a few) more dominant seasons, he'll move up a space or two. And of course, if he wins an MVP or title (outside chance beyond 2005), he'll move up maybe 2 or 3 spaces from the bottom of the top 10 of all time.
 

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rating top players....

Its hard for me to put players like Bird, Wilt and Dream ahead of players who won more rings than they did. I know they played against other each other, while other all-time greats like Jordan didn't really have another great player/team to duel against (closest he came was Malone, who could never quite be his equal).

And yet people are willing to give Jordan the nod as the greatest of all time. Of course, he did win more championships than anyone else, along with being super-clutch and winning multiple MVP's.

(Russell was a great defensive force, but people don't give him the respect that 10 rings deserves because he was not nearly as potent offensively.)

People who talk about super-rivalries putting shaq below bird, for instance, would still put rival-less Jordan at the top of the class becasue he has more championships; Shaq has more than almost everyone on the top 10 list except jordan.

If you are going to put dominant years/championships, then shaq should be 3rd or 4th, behind jordan and magic. Wilt had 1 or 2 championships, as did bird. was Kareem there for 4 also? If so, he was not as dominant the last few years...

Of course, I am hoping Duncan has a few more championships and puts himself on this list; with 2, I think he is knocking on the door, especially considering he did not have any allstar help like everyone on this list besides wilt.
 

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Originally posted by <b>Drewbs</b>!


Right, after 2001. He got lazy and put on the pounds, but in 2000, he was unstoppable. He played defense, he hustled for rebounds, he was in shape and had a variety of post moves. It is hard to compare different eras, so in comparison Kareem did not dominate the 70s and 80s the way Shaq has. There simply has never been an answer for him on defense otehr than hack him and send him to the line. But, it has hard to compare.

A few dominant seasons on both ends are not even close to
Kareem's nearly two decades of dominance. Who has the
answer for the skyhook? Shaq can still be contained by hacking.
Can you contain Kareem's skyhook? He would drop 30+ points
on you anyway.

IMHO, Shaq's domiance in a center-depleted league can't even
rival Hakeem's. During 1993 - 1996 Hakeem dominated Ewing,
MVP Robinson and an explosive young Shaq. He dominated on
both ends against way tougher competition for a much longer
time than Shaq. Who can stop Hakeem during his two title run?
He basically won his first title with a bunch of role players.

Not Ewing:

1994 Finals:
Patrick Ewing: 18.9 points .363 FG%
Hakeem Olajuwon: 26.9 points .500 FG%(MVP, DPOY, Final MVP)

Not MVP Robinson:

1995 WCF:
David Robinson: 23.8 points 11.3 rebounds 2.7 assists 1.5 steals
Hakeem Olajuwon: 35.3 points 12.5 rebounds 5.0 assists 4.1 blocks 1.3 steals

Not young Shaq:

1995 Finals.

Hakeem: 33 pts
Shaq: 28 pts


Hakeem was much more active than Shaq on defense. He is the
all-time block leader and 7th in total steals.
 
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