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Discussion Starter · #1 ·
out of these big men, who has the best guard skills if they are just normal guard size

given the rating below :

5 - top notch
4 - excellent
3 - good
2 - below average
1 - bad
0 - :no:

how would you rate these guys ? give a brief detail about description on why you think a specific player has better skills and what set them apart from one another.

kevin garnett
tim duncan
chris webber
dirk nowitzki
shareef abdul rahim
jermaine oneal
rasheed wallace
tim thomas
jonathan bender
rashard lewis
lamar odom
pau gasol
antoine walker
darius miles
amare stoudimire
kwame brown
tyson chandler
nene
stromile swift
travis outlaw
nhudi ebi
shaquille oneal
brad miller
yao ming
darko milicic
nikoloz tskitishvili
 

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Lamar Odom
KG
Antoine Walker
and
Tim Duncan

That's the fives.

And you could throw Lebron James in there because he's built like a ****ing power forward.

Oh yeah. Darius Miles has good handles. One of the few things he can do well is dribble the basketball. He'd probably be a better player at 6-7 instead of however tall he is now.
 

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Future - not many people are going to agree with you about Duncan, so I will. He's got an incredibly smooth, underrated handle and he passes the ball well. His shot only goes out to about 18 feet, but if he were a guard he probably would just work and work until he had the 3. It's mainly his ball-handling that makes me see him as a good guard. If he were shorter he'd have one of the best handles in the league, no question. People who don't watch him a lot really don't see it. If I had to choose one big man to handle the ball against pressure, I would choose Duncan.
 

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Originally posted by <b>Nevus</b>!
Future - not many people are going to agree with you about Duncan, so I will. He's got an incredibly smooth, underrated handle and he passes the ball well. His shot only goes out to about 18 feet, but if he were a guard he probably would just work and work until he had the 3. It's mainly his ball-handling that makes me see him as a good guard. If he were shorter he'd have one of the best handles in the league, no question. People who don't watch him a lot really don't see it. If I had to choose one big man to handle the ball against pressure, I would choose Duncan.
i completely agree!i watch the spurs a lot and i see him bring the ball down the court alot. i've seen him do a cross dribble around three defenders! duncan is great....
 

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Duncan has everything but the ability to pass as well as a guard. Duncan is by no means a great passer or even a good one. Has very average court vision. Still, a great dribbler with amazing footwork and definitely could be an OK guard.

KG is pretty much an ideal guard, in a 7 foot body of course. He can already guard the perimeter better than anyone in the league his size, becuase of his quickness, smarts, and light and tough frame in general. Is perhaps the best big man passer in the league next to Brad Miller and Karl Malone. Has tremendous handles.

IMO it's not even a contest, KG all the way.
 

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Originally posted by <b>Nevus</b>!
Tim Duncan's doesn't throw a lot of creative passes, but he's got great precision.
True. In that sense he kind of reminds me of Malone; hard, quick passes through open passing lanes.

Still, he's very very uncreative, and that does shut down quite a lot of tight (but available) passing lanes that are necessary when playing good/great defensive teams.

Though he does have perhaps the best handles of any big man in the L next to KG, and Cwebb possibly.
 

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I think the other thing you've got to give Duncan credit for is his basketball IQ, one of the highest in the league. I've seen him call plays and distribute the ball like a point guard. I think if he would make a great point guard if he were shorter. He probably wouldn't be a star at point guard, but he'd have a great handle and he would know how to run an offense.
 

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Discussion Starter · #9 ·
Originally posted by <b>EHL</b>!


True. In that sense he kind of reminds me of Malone; hard, quick passes through open passing lanes.

Still, he's very very uncreative, and that does shut down quite a lot of tight (but available) passing lanes that are necessary when playing good/great defensive teams.

Though he does have perhaps the best handles of any big man in the L next to KG, and Cwebb possibly.
do you guys seriously think dirk nowitzki is not a better ball handler than duncan, c webb or kg ?????
after read through you guys post i notice none of you mention dirk nowitzki, i do think him and toine have the best handle among all big men in the league and then kg, c webb and duncan.

stars like shareef abdul rahim and rashard lewis and scrubs like tim thomas, jonathan bender, darius miles all have handles argubly just as good as the likes of kg-c webb-duncan if not better.

oh yeah, i keep hearing people saying sheed has potential to be one of top 10 players in the league if he put his mind to it and can do it all blah blah, how come none of those critics saying anything about his handle, i think sheed has the worst handle among all top notch big men out on the west but no one ever say anything about it, sheed always lose the dribble when he try to beat his man out on the floor, i seriously think he should improve his ball handling skills, what do you guys think ??

btw, lebron is not a big man, hes only 6-7, if he grow another 2 inch then maybe he can be consider the best big man with guard skills !!!!!!
 

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Dirk's ballhandling is not nearly as good as KG or Duncan. Not even close. He's just got good footspeed. But he dribbles high and not very precisely. Seriously, not comparable.
 

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Originally posted by <b>Nevus</b>!
Dirk's ballhandling is not nearly as good as KG or Duncan. Not even close. He's just got good footspeed. But he dribbles high and not very precisely. Seriously, not comparable.
Agreed. Dirk relies almost completely on footspeed for penetration. His handles are good, just not great.
 

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From the players you listed...

kevin garnett : 5 - Not much can be said!
tim duncan : 4.9- Subtracted 0.1 for lack of creativity
chris webber : 4
dirk nowitzki : 3 - he simply relies on his footwork
shareef abdul rahim : 3
jermaine oneal : 3
rasheed wallace : 4 - a seriously good perimeter defender
tim thomas : 3
jonathan bender ?
rashard lewis : 4
lamar odom : 4
pau gasol : 3
antoine walker : 3
darius miles : 4 - he´s got some nice handles
amare stoudimire : 3
kwame brown : 3
tyson chandler : 3
nene : 2
stromile swift : 3
travis outlaw ?
nhudi ebi : 1 - this guy is a turnover machine
shaquille oneal : 2 - sorry but could not give any higher...
brad miller : 4 - right behind duncan and KG
yao ming : 2
darko milicic ? - didn´t get to see too much from him
nikoloz tskitishvili: 3
 

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Discussion Starter · #13 ·
Originally posted by <b>EHL</b>!


Agreed. Dirk relies almost completely on footspeed for penetration. His handles are good, just not great.
no no dirk does not relies almost completely on foot speed to get by his opponents, as a matter of fact his foot speed isnt all that faster than kg or duncan, hes actually a little slower than kg, he can get by an opponent with his dribble with ease than kg nor duncan, kg is smooth but he cant seem to dribble more than 2 times without picking it up when he try to beat his man off the dribble, duncan is rather mechenical, whenever he try to take his man off the dribble he looks like hes struggle to keep the ball in his hand, and it doesnt look very precise at all

not trying to create a stir here but dirk does handle the ball more precisely than both kg and duncan, and everytime when he beat his man off the dribble he never look as if he struggle to keep the ball and trying to get a shot off like duncan or picking it up in a hurry like kg.
 

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Discussion Starter · #14 ·
how would you rate sheed among those big boys like dirk-c webb-kg-duncan ?????
this guy always lose the ball whenever hes double teamed, it happen always like this, he dribble once, twice, the ball came forword then his body lean forword trying to catch it up, then opposing guard come up, swipe the ball from his hand, whenever he try to beat a double team (sometimes a single defender can cause that to happen) with his dribble, the result will be just that.
sometimes its really painful to see him handle the ball, dude has been in the league for almost 10 years so i dont think he can improve his handle that much anymore.
 

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It looks like we could argue about Dirk, KG, and Duncan all day so why don´t we get some stats involved into this... check out the Hands Rating from 82games.com:
KG 17.3
B.Miller 16.2
Nowitzki 14.3
Duncan 11.1
 

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Originally posted by <b>panthera_pardus</b>!
It looks like we could argue about Dirk, KG, and Duncan all day so why don´t we get some stats involved into this... check out the Hands Rating from 82games.com:
KG 17.3
B.Miller 16.2
Nowitzki 14.3
Duncan 11.1
Another meaningless stat from 82games.com
 

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Zarko Cabarkapa
 

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Originally posted by <b>panthera_pardus</b>!
It looks like we could argue about Dirk, KG, and Duncan all day so why don´t we get some stats involved into this... check out the Hands Rating from 82games.com:
KG 17.3
B.Miller 16.2
Nowitzki 14.3
Duncan 11.1
Heres a better way to tell....
From 82games.com

Dirk:
Turnovers and Ball Handling
OffensiveFouls 9
BadPasses 35
Ball HandlingTurnovers 15
OtherTurnovers 0
'Hands'Rating 14.3

Duncan:
Turnovers and Ball Handling
OffensiveFouls 15
Bad Passes 36
Ball Handling Turnovers 43
Other Turnovers 4
'Hands' Rating 11.1

B.Miller:
Turnovers and Ball Handling
Offensive Fouls 9
Bad Passes 41
Ball Handling Turnovers 20
Other Turnovers 4
'Hands' Rating 16.2

KG:
Turnovers and Ball Handling
Offensive Fouls 18
Bad Passes 33
Ball Handling Turnovers 32
Other Turnovers 5
'Hands' Rating 17.3
Dirk is a better dribbler, not only does he have the fewest Ball Handline Turnovers, his Other Turnovers are at 0.
Duncan is just turnover prone when he dribbles.
 

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Duncan is just turnover prone when he dribbles.
This is why 82games.com stats are meaningless most of the time, because incorrect conclusions like the one above can be drawn from this data. In this instance (ball handling turnovers), the fact that Duncan faces much more extreme defensive pressure than Dirk over the course of a regular season and postseason isn't taken into account.
 

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Maybe Duncan turns the ball over more because he's being swarmed by three people in the post instead of facing up one defender on the perimeter all the time.

Regardless of what those stats say... all you have to do is watch the games to see that Duncan's handle is far superior to Dirk's. Dirk is really not that great of a ball handler. I'm not saying he loses the ball a lot. His handle is just kind of loose.
 
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