Professional and College Basketball Forums banner

1 - 20 of 42 Posts

·
Registered
Joined
·
14,165 Posts
Discussion Starter #1
Sometimes i don't feel Isiah Thomas (the Basketball player! ;) ) gets the respect he deserves when talking about the greatest players ever.

Since it's kind of hard comparing players from diferent eras, i'll try to shorten the time span from 1980 til now.

So, in that period, who do you guys think was a better PG or Isiah's par?

Sure, Magic was better. Anyone else?

Isiah Thomas was the undisputed leader of the Bad Boys Pistons who won 2 championships while also being it's go-to guy.
He could score and pass with the best of them.
His team also has the valuable distinction to have beat the Bird's-Celtics, Magic's-Lakers and Jordan's-Bulls.
 

·
Administrator
Joined
·
67,770 Posts
At the PG position, only Magic was better overall in that time span. I've got Isiah over Stockton, KJ, Nash, Price, and CP3.
 

·
Premium Member
Joined
·
8,493 Posts
Again, once we're past Magic, I don't think there's really anyone that was clearly better than Isiah. He's definitely in that second tier, and then there are other guys you could argue for joining him there (Stockton, Kidd, Payton, Chris Paul, Nash, and several others).
 

·
Michael Whiteacre's Running Mate
Joined
·
2,338 Posts
Again, once we're past Magic, I don't think there's really anyone that was clearly better than Isiah. He's definitely in that second tier, and then there are other guys you could argue for joining him there (Stockton, Kidd, Payton, Chris Paul, Nash, and several others).
I have him a clear second behind Magic for the same reason I rated Malone and Barkley over KG. He has the charisma and attitude to be a team leader - with exceptional success in his case (two rings in the tough early 90s).

While ability wise the other guys are there with him - I feel they are more complimentary pieces to another superstar than he was. Detroit was just the perfect team for him to showcase his skill set - and those two rings are massive legacy wise.
 

·
BBB.net Archivist
Joined
·
26,901 Posts
Steve Colter
 

·
Restore the Roar
Joined
·
7,393 Posts
Stock and Nash? No. I disagree there.
I feel like for some weird reason the Pistons' 2 year run gets discounted on a fairly regular basis. Everyone is more than willing to praise the Celtics-Lakers rivalry in the `80s as the height of competitive basketball. Everyone is more than willing to call the Jordan Bulls the absolute height of baskeball - the greatest dynasty of modern basketball, if you ignore the two years Jordan was a minor league baseball player. But for some reason the 2 Pistons teams that bridge that gap... the team that, if not for a Zeke injury would have been champs the year before (and if not for other Laker related injuries would not have won the other, I know)... Somehow for two years the NBA deteriorated to such a level that those two Pistons teams were merely ordinary champs. A couple of rings in just another ho-hum era.

Isiah was a fantastic NBA PG, and the undoubted LEADER of those teams, without whom Joe Dumars is an NBA footnote whose career as a player is only remembered because he's currently a GM. His legacy has been murdered by his post career idiocy. Fact of the matter is that he is by the numbers, the eye test, and the trophy test - Zeke is the clear cut number two behind Magic since 1980.
 

·
Oladipo for the people
Joined
·
48,150 Posts
I feel like for some weird reason the Pistons' 2 year run gets discounted on a fairly regular basis. Everyone is more than willing to praise the Celtics-Lakers rivalry in the `80s as the height of competitive basketball. Everyone is more than willing to call the Jordan Bulls the absolute height of baskeball - the greatest dynasty of modern basketball, if you ignore the two years Jordan was a minor league baseball player. But for some reason the 2 Pistons teams that bridge that gap... the team that, if not for a Zeke injury would have been champs the year before (and if not for other Laker related injuries would not have won the other, I know)... Somehow for two years the NBA deteriorated to such a level that those two Pistons teams were merely ordinary champs. A couple of rings in just another ho-hum era.

Isiah was a fantastic NBA PG, and the undoubted LEADER of those teams, without whom Joe Dumars is an NBA footnote whose career as a player is only remembered because he's currently a GM. His legacy has been murdered by his post career idiocy. Fact of the matter is that he is by the numbers, the eye test, and the trophy test - Zeke is the clear cut number two behind Magic since 1980.
I'm a huge Zeke fan. But to put him over Stock and Nash, two of the best distributors we've seen, as well as Stocks D and Nash's shooting.... its just a tough sell for me.

Maybe over Nash since he only plays 50% of the game. People seem to underrate Stockton in my eyes though on this forum.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
2,148 Posts
Saying Stockton is third behind Isiah and Magic isn't disrespectful. That's a make compliment to him.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
14,165 Posts
Discussion Starter #13
I have him a clear second behind Magic for the same reason I rated Malone and Barkley over KG. He has the charisma and attitude to be a team leader - with exceptional success in his case (two rings in the tough early 90s).

While ability wise the other guys are there with him - I feel they are more complimentary pieces to another superstar than he was. Detroit was just the perfect team for him to showcase his skill set - and those two rings are massive legacy wise.
That's also my way of thinking.

Judging by partial aspects of the game, there are other payers who were better than Isiah.
Stockton was a better defender and passer; Payton was a better defender and a comparable leader; Steve Nash was a better shooter and passer;
CP3 is a comparable all-around player; Kidd was a better defender and passer, etc., etc.

BUT

When it comes to put it all together, adding being the go-to guy for a team, the face (and mouth) of a frachise, being able to congregate the strenghts of his teammates and elevate his game when it matters the most (ex: his demolishing of the Blazers in the Finals) i don't think any of the other great PGs are at Zeke's level.
Not even Nash, with his 2 MVPs.

Oh, and no one (with the possible exception of Timmy) had a better handle! ;)
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
14,165 Posts
Discussion Starter #14
I feel like for some weird reason the Pistons' 2 year run gets discounted on a fairly regular basis. Everyone is more than willing to praise the Celtics-Lakers rivalry in the `80s as the height of competitive basketball. Everyone is more than willing to call the Jordan Bulls the absolute height of baskeball - the greatest dynasty of modern basketball, if you ignore the two years Jordan was a minor league baseball player. But for some reason the 2 Pistons teams that bridge that gap... the team that, if not for a Zeke injury would have been champs the year before (and if not for other Laker related injuries would not have won the other, I know)... Somehow for two years the NBA deteriorated to such a level that those two Pistons teams were merely ordinary champs. A couple of rings in just another ho-hum era.

Isiah was a fantastic NBA PG, and the undoubted LEADER of those teams, without whom Joe Dumars is an NBA footnote whose career as a player is only remembered because he's currently a GM. His legacy has been murdered by his post career idiocy. Fact of the matter is that he is by the numbers, the eye test, and the trophy test - Zeke is the clear cut number two behind Magic since 1980.
I get the exact same feeling (one of the reasons for this thread).
When i started watching the NBA on a more regular basis, the Pistons WERE the team to beat in the East.
For a 4 year span (from ousting Boston in the Garden til their sweeping loss to the Bulls) they were the most dangerous team in the league (heck, it could have started a season earlier if it wasn't for Bird's miraculous (sp?) save). Because of their defense AND because of Isiah Thomas, their franchise player.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
2,148 Posts

·
Registered
Joined
·
105 Posts
Only Steve Nash, but CP3 will surpass him if he stays healthy.

1. Earvin Johnson
2. Oscar Robertson
3. Steve Nash
4. Isiah Thomas
5. Walt Frazier
6. Gary Payton
7. John Stockton
8. Jason Kidd
9. Chris Paul
10. Dennis Johnson
11. Kevin Johnson
12. Tiny Archibald
13. Gus Williams
14. Jo Jo White
15. Lenny Wilkens
 

·
Administrator
Joined
·
67,770 Posts
I know many people on these boards consider him a SG, but I personally have Jerry West as the second best point guard of all-time.
 

·
Better Call Saul
Joined
·
13,184 Posts
I consider him a shooting guard, but I would take the logo over every point guard not named Magic for what it's worth.

I wouldn't argue vehemently against someone putting Oscar over West though, just a preference thing.


Sent from Verticalsports.com Free App
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
2,128 Posts
I consider him a shooting guard, but I would take the logo over every point guard not named Magic for what it's worth.

I wouldn't argue vehemently against someone putting Oscar over West though, just a preference thing.


Sent from Verticalsports.com Free App
The "logo" was 1-10 in the playoffs. I can't believe the sheer disrespect people are spewing. CP3 who hasn't even made a conf finals over Zeke? Please stop with the Nash talk. The fact he play ZERO defense means a lot in a team setting. Zeke was the leader on the team Jordan couldn't beat for many years, until the NBA changed the rules to help MJ beat the Pistons
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
351 Posts
I believe Isiah is either 3rd or 4th greatest pg ever. I dont count Cousy. It's like counting Mikan at center. Isiah- a supreme pg. IMO he is in that 15-25 all-time range.

What hurts Isiah is that generally we see teams that win titles have a super-great "best player on the floor." For many years Isiaah just wasn't better than Jabbar/Magic/Bird/Jordan. Sure he beat them all. But they beat him too. Overall their numbers are better.

Thus you say Lakers/Celts/Bulls at their peak are superior to Pistons at theirs. And you would point to the 4 superstars above. Isaah's stats just don't meausre up to these other dudes prime vs prime.
 
1 - 20 of 42 Posts
Top