Just wanted to see what everyone elses opinion was on the matter. I think that we should try to get rid of Austin, Mercer and Artest. If the circumstances were different I would want to keep artest. Hes a good player. But we are too deep at that possition and I would rather have Harrington and Bender. I liker Mercer but he makes too much and Fred could end up being a real good player. What better a man to learn the game from the Reggie Miller. He could be great. So that leaves Mercer out of the loop. As far as trading for point guards and such, thats just stupid. Tinsley put up great rookie numbers. Better than Tony Parkers but he gets all the media because of the team he is on. The only thing I can see us realy needing is a better center. Brad is a good center but with him and JO running the front court whos going to bang down low? With a true center on the team and a couple years we could be the next dynasty. Those are of course just my thoughts on it. What do the rest of you think?
Who's Staying, and whos got to go
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I say keep artest, i think hes going to grow into a special player. You need to keep a player that "loves" to play defense.
I would like to keep him. When he was on the bulls he was my favorite player who was not a Pacer. The only problem is, we have 2 sf's who in my opinion could be all stars. Harrington is a better sf than a pf, and even if he wanted to play pf he would get barley any minutes comming behind JO. Bender tried playing sg but its obvious hes alot more suited for sf and he still doesnt have enough bulk to play the 4. We have a log jam. Some ones got to go. I wish we could keep them all, but financially it doesnt work and they all deserve to start. Losing one will be bad, I just hope that either Al or Jon will be ok with being the 6th man because they both deserve to start.
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some interesting thoughts. but i disagree on sending brad miller out. he is definitely one of the better centers in the league today. he is a legit 7 footer with good court smarts, and excellent shooting range for any big man in the league. he gets you a good 16 or so points a game along with 8 to 10 rebs as well. and those aren't the kind of gaudy numbers where a guy ends up with several junk boards and points when the game has already been decided. i believe without a doubt he is better than olowokandi, not just now but in the future as welll. chicago made a mistake in trading him. but since the jordan years, which ended sooner than they could've, they have made many, many mistakes. b miller is a good center with quite a few years left in him and i'm happy he's a pacer. - that's saying something since i'm a hoosier fan too and i hated him when he was a boiler because he was often a big pain in the butt for i.u.
I like Brad too. Hes one of the better centers. I have no doubt he can hold it down it the east. Im just not thinking about only making the finals anymore though. The only center that has shown he can at least slow shaq down besides Deke is Kandi. If we met the lakers in the finals we would be able to take them if we had Kandi I think. Kandi could slow shaq, obviously not stop though and Harrington and/or Artest could shut Kobe out like they have shown they can in previous games. If we don't get another center its ok, Brads more than capable. But I think if we dont the only place we are going is to the finals to get knocked out again.
Harrington and Bender future All-Stars? WHAT?
Al Harrington and Jonathan Bender are both potential All-Stars? DUDE!
I like Harrington, I really do, but he's more of a glue-type player. He's not the kind of guy who goes to the All-Star Game.
Jonathan Bender, meanwhile, has NO IDEA what is going on out there! NO IDEA! Great athlete, but that's it! If the Pacers can include him and a couple other guys in a package for an available STAR (Andre Miller, Baron Davis, perhaps even Vince Carter or Allen Iverson), they need to do it NOW, before teams start realizing that Bender will never be a star.
Jamaal Tinsley was a steal at #27 (or wherever) last season, but he turns the ball over a ton, he isn't a good outside shooter, he doesn't have a lot of upside, and he was losing lots of minutes in the playoffs to KEVIN OLLIE, which says a LOT.
Ron Mercer is certainly overpaid, but GOOD LUCK getting somebody to trade for this guy. He's a journeyman and he's not even 30 yet.
Brad Miller is nothing special, although he's certainly an above-average center. However, the fact that so many teams are so willing to give a LOT of money to centers, even bad ones (watch how much money somebody gives Jerome James this offseason, and DO NOT tell me that Jerome James at 5 ppg and 4 rpg is a "good player" if you want to retain any credibility), WELL, at least a couple of teams are going to be willing to give Brad Miller a LOT of money when he is a free agent next summer. Do you really think the Pacers are going to have time to make him a good offer while they are freaking out about losing Jermaine O'Neal to the Magic and Reggie Miller to a legitimate contender?
Ron Artest has a lot of trade value, and I guess I think the team should probably include him in a package offer for a legitimate star.
Maybe offer Bender, Artest, Mercer, and a future #1 for Andre Miller and filler (Tyrone Hill and Lamond Murray, two veterans who do NOT fit in with the Cleveland youth movement)? The Cavs are probably determined to trade him, to get what they can for him--and my guess is that the Clips are going to keep beating around the bush. Hell, throw in a future first-rounder if you have to! If the Pacers and Cavs do this deal--and if the Pacers ALSO do that deal with Boston--here are yr 2002-03 Indiana Pacers (best backcourt in the East? Probably!):
PG Andre Miller--Kenny Anderson--Jamison Brewer
SG Reggie Miller--Fred Jones
SF Al Harrington--Lamond Murray
PF Jermaine O'Neal--Tyrone Hill
C Brad Miller--Jeff Foster--Primoz Brezec
In THIS situation, the Pacers add a legit STAR (Miller), they unload Croshere's salary, they eliminate the SF logjam, they clear the way for Fred Jones to actually get minutes behind Reggie. And both Kenny Anderson AND Tyrone Hill will be off the books after next season, allowing the team to re-sign Jermaine O'Neal (and possibly Brad Miller) and to give Andre Miller the longterm extension (probably a max-out deal) that he's going to want and need. Murray's contract goes on for several more seasons, but oh well, if that's the price you pay for getting Andre Miller (and make no mistake, Jonathan Bender will NEVER be a star in this league, his stock will go nowhere but down starting in November; Mercer is ridiculously overpaid and will never put up good numbers for anything other than a 20-win team; and Artest is a bit of a headcase and won't like losing minutes to Al Harrington; and if the Pacers are as good next year as everybody thinks, that lottery pick is nothing special, anyway; so, you know what, you haven't given up very much in order to get Andre!), GOOD!
Of course, the team STILL needs to fire Isiah--but this is starting to look like something that won't happen until during or after next season... OH WELL...
Al Harrington and Jonathan Bender are both potential All-Stars? DUDE!
I like Harrington, I really do, but he's more of a glue-type player. He's not the kind of guy who goes to the All-Star Game.
Jonathan Bender, meanwhile, has NO IDEA what is going on out there! NO IDEA! Great athlete, but that's it! If the Pacers can include him and a couple other guys in a package for an available STAR (Andre Miller, Baron Davis, perhaps even Vince Carter or Allen Iverson), they need to do it NOW, before teams start realizing that Bender will never be a star.
Jamaal Tinsley was a steal at #27 (or wherever) last season, but he turns the ball over a ton, he isn't a good outside shooter, he doesn't have a lot of upside, and he was losing lots of minutes in the playoffs to KEVIN OLLIE, which says a LOT.
Ron Mercer is certainly overpaid, but GOOD LUCK getting somebody to trade for this guy. He's a journeyman and he's not even 30 yet.
Brad Miller is nothing special, although he's certainly an above-average center. However, the fact that so many teams are so willing to give a LOT of money to centers, even bad ones (watch how much money somebody gives Jerome James this offseason, and DO NOT tell me that Jerome James at 5 ppg and 4 rpg is a "good player" if you want to retain any credibility), WELL, at least a couple of teams are going to be willing to give Brad Miller a LOT of money when he is a free agent next summer. Do you really think the Pacers are going to have time to make him a good offer while they are freaking out about losing Jermaine O'Neal to the Magic and Reggie Miller to a legitimate contender?
Ron Artest has a lot of trade value, and I guess I think the team should probably include him in a package offer for a legitimate star.
Maybe offer Bender, Artest, Mercer, and a future #1 for Andre Miller and filler (Tyrone Hill and Lamond Murray, two veterans who do NOT fit in with the Cleveland youth movement)? The Cavs are probably determined to trade him, to get what they can for him--and my guess is that the Clips are going to keep beating around the bush. Hell, throw in a future first-rounder if you have to! If the Pacers and Cavs do this deal--and if the Pacers ALSO do that deal with Boston--here are yr 2002-03 Indiana Pacers (best backcourt in the East? Probably!):
PG Andre Miller--Kenny Anderson--Jamison Brewer
SG Reggie Miller--Fred Jones
SF Al Harrington--Lamond Murray
PF Jermaine O'Neal--Tyrone Hill
C Brad Miller--Jeff Foster--Primoz Brezec
In THIS situation, the Pacers add a legit STAR (Miller), they unload Croshere's salary, they eliminate the SF logjam, they clear the way for Fred Jones to actually get minutes behind Reggie. And both Kenny Anderson AND Tyrone Hill will be off the books after next season, allowing the team to re-sign Jermaine O'Neal (and possibly Brad Miller) and to give Andre Miller the longterm extension (probably a max-out deal) that he's going to want and need. Murray's contract goes on for several more seasons, but oh well, if that's the price you pay for getting Andre Miller (and make no mistake, Jonathan Bender will NEVER be a star in this league, his stock will go nowhere but down starting in November; Mercer is ridiculously overpaid and will never put up good numbers for anything other than a 20-win team; and Artest is a bit of a headcase and won't like losing minutes to Al Harrington; and if the Pacers are as good next year as everybody thinks, that lottery pick is nothing special, anyway; so, you know what, you haven't given up very much in order to get Andre!), GOOD!
Of course, the team STILL needs to fire Isiah--but this is starting to look like something that won't happen until during or after next season... OH WELL...
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you make some good points but you contradict yourself by saying bender is a potential all star and then you say he has no potential. I look it at it like this, the first real minutes and playing time in the nba for bender came last year. He showed flashes of being good and has the potential to be great. While harringtion is a good defender, I would much rather have Artest defensively. Plus the guy has an all around game. He almost had a near quadruple double and thats rare.
I never said Bender has no potential. And I also said they COULD be all-stars. Not would. I still think bender will. Hes 21, younger than alot of rookies are this year. Give him more time. Tinsley only lost his minutes to Ollie because he injured his ankle. Its not like Ollie was put in because he was producing better than Tinsley. Tinsley hatters can all shut up because if you look at rookie stats overall he was better than andre. Hes a rookie, he will get better next year, and the year after and the year after, you get the point. Being 3rd in the league in tripple doubles as a rookie is more than enough reason to be proud. Tinsley will be great. Not good, great. If the Pacers keep Tinsley,Oneal ,Miller, Harrington and Bender they will be the next dynasty. And for the last time robyg Miller is not looking to leave the Pacers. He will end his career there.
Who to lose?
Brad Miller is a definite keeper. He is a top ten center in the league ( doesn't say that much for the position) and is still young enough to improve. Artest is too good a defender but if he won't be able to handle only getting 20 minutes a game then he will need to bemoved. Artest can play the 2 also ( especially on defense) as a back-up. Mercer and Croshere are way overpaid, need to be traded but may be difficult to move. By now Bender should have shown more; I'd certainly be willing to move him if we could get rid of Mercer or Croshere at the same time. Does anybody else believe Freddie Jones was a huge stretch??
Brad Miller is a definite keeper. He is a top ten center in the league ( doesn't say that much for the position) and is still young enough to improve. Artest is too good a defender but if he won't be able to handle only getting 20 minutes a game then he will need to bemoved. Artest can play the 2 also ( especially on defense) as a back-up. Mercer and Croshere are way overpaid, need to be traded but may be difficult to move. By now Bender should have shown more; I'd certainly be willing to move him if we could get rid of Mercer or Croshere at the same time. Does anybody else believe Freddie Jones was a huge stretch??
Yea, wasent expecting to see his name called. I was hearing rumours that if we would have taked woods, the lakers were going to trade Horry for woods and Austin. If it was the real deal and we didnt take it, someone realy screwed up.
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If we ghet to the Finals we need Artest! He is the only real Kobe- Stopper in the league:yes:
Maybe, Maybe not
Harrington is also a top notch defender, and wont be a liability on offence. He wont get as many steals as Artest (who does?) but he defends very well and can take it to the hole. If Artest didnt make such bad shot selections, I would chose him over Harrington.
Harrington is also a top notch defender, and wont be a liability on offence. He wont get as many steals as Artest (who does?) but he defends very well and can take it to the hole. If Artest didnt make such bad shot selections, I would chose him over Harrington.
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Harrington is not as fast as Artest:no: He could not keep up with Kobe. Artest is really speedy and coud use his awesome strength to overpower Kobe. Artest is 255 or somewhere around there. Kobe is around 210. And they both have the same speed. That is impressive! Plus Artest plays with passion.
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Artest would prolly guard kobe pretty good, but the term "Kobe Stopper" is an Oxymoron. Im not a big fan of kobe after the whole Reggie thing but the guy is gonna get 20 -25 even with the other teams best defender on him.
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