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Curse of the Sonics
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He is a good player. That's why.

You could replace Duhon with Gordon, Hinrich, Deng, Chandler, Sweetney, etc. and this thread would mean the same thing. All these guys are good but not great ballplayers.
 

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Discussion Starter #3
he's really not that good. a very nice back-up pg. but team leader in minutes? doesn't make much sense.

enough of this bs.. we really need kirk + ben on the floor together for as much time as possible.
 

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we had 26 t/o the game Duhon dnp. You think that may have something to do with Duhon not being in the game?

He has a triple double already.

Yeah a good back-up.

A good starter as well.
 

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that was one game.

i highly doubt duhon will regularly post triple-doubles. in fact i highly doubt that duhon will shoot above 35% this year.

many laude duhon for his ball-handling abilites and low turnovers.. but people need to realize that poor shooting is the equivalent of repeatedly turning the ball over.

he really is the most overrated player on this board.
 

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david123 said:
that was one game.

i highly doubt duhon will regularly post triple-doubles. in fact i highly doubt that duhon will shoot above 35% this year.

many laude duhon for his ball-handling abilites and low turnovers.. but people need to realize that poor shooting is the equivalent of repeatedly turning the ball over.

he really is the most overrated player on this board.
Duhon is probably overrated a little by a lot of Bulls fans, I think the situation is that his value here exceeds his talent, if that makes sense. He's the most easily replacable piece of our young core, but not having him for any given amount of time may hurt more than Deng, Noce, or Gordon. He is certainly valueable to this team and has a very reasonable contract. I don't think many here tout him as one of the leagues premiere pionts so my question to you david is

Why are you so unimpressed with Duhon?
 

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david123 said:
but people need to realize that poor shooting is the equivalent of repeatedly turning the ball over.
And turning the ball over is the equivelant of not shooting, which is worse than poor shooting.
 

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I totally agree with you , he should not lead this team in minutes, I would play him about 15-18 minutes a game , his defense and offense is really bad . He really looked awful guarding telfair
 

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No, Chandler is the most overrated player on this board. However, I agree with your general point on Duhon.

I have a theory as to what is the underlying "business plan" of Reinsdorf, Paxson and Skiles as it relates to the Bulls' roster. The plan, in my opinion, is to forge a winning team based on 1) hustle, 2)defense and 3) the absence of superstar egos. They saw how less talented Olympic teams could beat NBA stars by playing team-oriented ball, and the Bulls' so called "brain trust" wants to emulate those teams. Pax and Skiles get hard-ons for overachieving players who don't cost too much and have the right "jib". Hence the addition of players like Songalia and Basden and the subtraction of players like Crawford and Curry.

Hinrich and Duhon are exactly the type of players that fit the mold, i.e. scrappy team players. I think Skiles and Pax, both guards during their NBA careers, see a bit of themselves in these players. Hence, Hinrich and Duhon are the darlings of the organization.

Generally speaking, I don't have a problem with the concept-up to a point. What Pax fails to understand is that you need size and athleticism to win in the NBA, besides hustle and the right jib. He pays lip service to this but does not do the things necessary to obtain those type of players. I am absolutely astonished that Pax did not try to get a big, veteran 2 guard during the summer. If he thinks he can win in the NBA with Duhon/Hinrich/Gordon as the backcourt he is nuts. The fact that they snuck up on teams last year was an aberration. Jerry Krauss was an absolute putz in his stubborn belief in his own powers. I am getting the feeling that Pax and Skiles, in their own way, are also stubbornly ego-centric.
 

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charlietyra said:
No, Chandler is the most overrated player on this board. However, I agree with your general point on Duhon.

I have a theory as to what is the underlying "business plan" of Reinsdorf, Paxson and Skiles as it relates to the Bulls' roster. The plan, in my opinion, is to forge a winning team based on 1) hustle, 2)defense and 3) the absence of superstar egos. They saw how less talented Olympic teams could beat NBA stars by playing team-oriented ball, and the Bulls' so called "brain trust" wants to emulate those teams. Pax and Skiles get hard-ons for overachieving players who don't cost too much and have the right "jib". Hence the addition of players like Songalia and Basden and the subtraction of players like Crawford and Curry.

Hinrich and Duhon are exactly the type of players that fit the mold, i.e. scrappy team players. I think Skiles and Pax, both guards during their NBA careers, see a bit of themselves in these players. Hence, Hinrich and Duhon are the darlings of the organization.

Generally speaking, I don't have a problem with the concept-up to a point. What Pax fails to understand is that you need size and athleticism to win in the NBA, besides hustle and the right jib. He pays lip service to this but does not do the things necessary to obtain those type of players. I am absolutely astonished that Pax did not try to get a big, veteran 2 guard during the summer. If he thinks he can win in the NBA with Duhon/Hinrich/Gordon as the backcourt he is nuts. The fact that they snuck up on teams last year was an aberration. Jerry Krauss was an absolute putz in his stubborn belief in his own powers. I am getting the feeling that Pax and Skiles, in their own way, are also stubbornly ego-centric.
Ok first of all I don't think anyone on these boards is over-rating him... especially since I see like 3 Tyson bashing threads on one page

second, Paxson KNOWS we need talent to win, but I am not so sure about skiles
... Paxson has a great eye for talent and has shown it with his draft picks

Also remember that PAxson DID NOT WANT to trade Eddy Curry, he was extremely pissed that he had to.. it's just that his conscience couldn't let Curry on to the court
I think Pax is doing just a fine job as GM, probably the best in the league with what he turned our roster into from what it was 2 years ago

Skiles though I think there's a problem... he needs to give our potential starts some more burn
Deng NEEDS to start to add an offensive weapon in and Skiles has GOT TO STOP pulling out gordon just for one mistake... he gives way more leaway to every other player and he needs to let gordon play his game and allow him to handle the ball more
 

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He's a low turnover, high assist point guard. I'm thinking his knee injury is hurting his defense because he is one of the better defenders on the team.


I really like Duhon but I get really angry when he's playing over Ben in the 4th.
 

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Sir Patchwork said:
And turning the ball over is the equivelant of not shooting, which is worse than poor shooting.

YOu know, I would normally agree, but bad shots are consistently leading to fast breaks and easy buckets. Bad defense is equally to blame.

However, when teams walk it up or slow it down, the Bulls play good D. It's when they get going up and down that the D falls apart. Also, bad shots, lead to bad fouls which leads to bad coaching ("I kept Seetney on the bench cause others were in foul trouble"????? skiles you idiot)....


Anyway, If duhon's gonna launch crappy shots, I'd rather he turn it over out of bounds so the D has time to get set.


Of course, all bets are off if Songalia the foul machine is in the game at that moment.

Duhon, when he's on is a stabilizing influence who is a good passer and good defender. Someone else hit it on the head with "that describes all our palyers". Of course, that's the jib factor. Superstars usually aren't jib guys.
 

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jimmy said:
He's a low turnover, high assist point guard. I'm thinking his knee injury is hurting his defense because he is one of the better defenders on the team.


I really like Duhon but I get really angry when he's playing over Ben in the 4th.
I think some have already forgotten that Duhon is playing injured right now. His knee bruise is a lingering problem. This can effect everything from his shot to his lateral movement defensively. Until he feels better, his minutes should be limited (20-25 per game), and either fill those minutes with Gordon, Pargo, or Basden.

Speaking of Basden, it's time to give this guy some minutes. In the 2 games he's played, he showed great energy. If we're getting burned by opposing guards, then Basden is the logical guy to throw out there. His defense is the one reason he was signed to this team.
 

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yodurk said:
I think some have already forgotten that Duhon is playing injured right now. His knee bruise is a lingering problem. This can effect everything from his shot to his lateral movement defensively. Until he feels better, his minutes should be limited (20-25 per game), and either fill those minutes with Gordon, Pargo, or Basden.

Speaking of Basden, it's time to give this guy some minutes. In the 2 games he's played, he showed great energy. If we're getting burned by opposing guards, then Basden is the logical guy to throw out there. His defense is the one reason he was signed to this team.
we shouldn't even be playing pargo AT ALL... and i agree we should have basden play... he does bring that energy that we could use along with backcourt rebounding
 

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Duhon is clearly the best guy we have at setting guys up and running the offense. Clearly our best perimeter defender too. Also a vocal team leader. I don't know what else we should expect from him. Sure, Gordon can score and he is flashy but the guy, at this point, isn't a very good defender and he turns the ball over too much. We tried it with Ben starting and he went cold, crawled in a shell, disappeared, however you want to phrase it. Thats what the problem is with playing "paper" basketball, on paper, Gordon looks like a guy that should be getting heavy minutes but if you are his coach and you see him struggle most everytime he starts, what do you do? I bring him off of the bench and so does Skiles, why? Because it makes sense.
 

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ace20004u said:
Duhon is clearly the best guy we have at setting guys up and running the offense. Clearly our best perimeter defender too. Also a vocal team leader. I don't know what else we should expect from him. Sure, Gordon can score and he is flashy but the guy, at this point, isn't a very good defender and he turns the ball over too much. We tried it with Ben starting and he went cold, crawled in a shell, disappeared, however you want to phrase it. Thats what the problem is with playing "paper" basketball, on paper, Gordon looks like a guy that should be getting heavy minutes but if you are his coach and you see him struggle most everytime he starts, what do you do? I bring him off of the bench and so does Skiles, why? Because it makes sense.
i don't think duhon is clearly our best perimeter defender. it's incredibly difficult to measure a player's defensive abilities because there are no clear stats that one can look at.. sure steals and rebounds tell part of the story, but they don't give you the whole picture. as a result, players' defensive ability often times rests on their reputation... which at times is outdated or inaccurate. i've seen plenty of times where opposing guards get past duhon, basically have their way with him. and vice-versa, i've seen gordon put much more effort into his defensive game, and have noticed much improvement in that area of his game.

look.. let's be frank. skiles didn't give ben a shot at starting. skiles gave him 5 lousy pre-season games to show his stuff before yanking him back to the bench. is it so hard to believe that ben was a bit nervous? skiles' comments and actions towards ben discourages him in every sense.. some may call it "brutal honesty"; to me, it reveals a stubborn coach who refuses to develop a young talented player. there's a reason why skiles is despised by so many of his former players.

it's clear to me that the two most talented guards on this bulls team are hinrich and gordon, and i strongly believe we must play these guys together to see what we can do. is it a perfect situation? no. but hey, it's the best we got.

i'm not really disappointed in duhon's play. i think he's fulfilled his potential, and i'm not really asking him to do more. what i am questioning is his role with this team, and how he is viewed by some on this board. at times, i get the impression that some (i emphasize some, not all) folks want to distance themselves from casual basketball fans so they purposely put more value in players who succeed in the more subtle areas of the game.
 

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Duhon played terrible in the first quarter. lead us in scoring. 6 pts 3 rebounds 2 assists.

He can defend.

As for Gordon being a better guard? He may be in scoring. Mchale was a hell of a player for Boston, but the majority of his career was off of the bench. Was that because the starting pf for boston was better than Gordon?

We need scoring from the bench. Gordon did very well last season playing that role.

He runs the offense. He does more than stats show.
 

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truebluefan said:
As for Gordon being a better guard? He may be in scoring. Mchale was a hell of a player for Boston, but the majority of his career was off of the bench. Was that because the starting pf for boston was better than Gordon?
This logic makes no sense.

truebluefan said:
We need scoring from the bench. Gordon did very well last season playing that role.
So because a player succeeds in a bench role, a team should keep him there? Should he not be given a chance to succeed in a more primary role?

He does more than stats show.
This is the crux of my disagreement.
 
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