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Why are we complaining about Tyson so much?

1866 Views 73 Replies 24 Participants Last post by  Da Grinch
In the last 29 games he is averaging 3.9 offensive boards per game (would rank him 1st in the league), 10.7 boards per game (would rank him 6th in the league) and 1.65 blocks per game (would be around 15th in the league). This is all while playing only 29 minutes per night. Everyone was talking about how we would rather have Dalembert. Look at his numbers lately. In my opinion, Tyson is the least of our problems right now. He will continue to develop his offensive game, but right now why are we worried about that? We need to figure out our rotation and who our star players are going to be. We needs some bigs who can post and relieve pressure on him on the inside. He is a good building block and we are better off with him than without. He is already pretty good and will only get better.
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lougehrig said:
In the last 29 games he is averaging 3.9 offensive boards per game (would rank him 1st in the league), 10.7 boards per game (would rank him 6th in the league) and 1.65 blocks per game (would be around 15th in the league). This is all while playing only 29 minutes per night. Everyone was talking about how we would rather have Dalembert. Look at his numbers lately. In my opinion, Tyson is the least of our problems right now. He will continue to develop his offensive game, but right now why are we worried about that? We need to figure out our rotation and who our star players are going to be. We needs some bigs who can post and relieve pressure on him on the inside. He is a good building block and we are better off with him than without. He is already pretty good and will only get better.
I agree with the general spirit of the post, but I disagree that we shouldn't be worried about his offensive game, and that he's a "good building block". I don't think he's a terrible building block, and our defense does sometimes still rest on his ability to patrol the paint, but I just don't get that feeling of him being a great foundational player. He's the type of guy you bring in to complete a team.

But he is a pretty strong defender. He's made several game-winning blocks this year, being effective in clutch situations, and although I'd like to see more offense from him, I don't know that he'll ever really be good enough to create his own offense away from the ball. Ben Wallace added a little jump shot he can make when he's open, as well as a one power-dribble spin to the hoop, but most of his points still come from alley-oops or cleaning up around the hoop. Even with improved skills, Wallace's main offensive effectiveness remains largely unchanged.

Tyson, also, will NEVER be a really big offensive contributor. So why not just work harder at what he already does, try to pick up a jumper since all players should have one, and then just focus on being the defensive anchor of the team?

If he were to do that, and get about 8.5, 10 rpg and 2 bpg, I think he'd be living up to the expectations of his contract.
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Bet money Tyson has a jump shot.

Skiles is just such a jerk, he has Tyson too scared to show it off.

NO CONFIDENCE...Skiles isn't the best @ fostering that AT ALL....One reason why I sometimes think twice about the guy as our head coach.

Tyson needs to follow the yellow brick road and ask the wizard for CONFIDENCE.

We'll see a much better player....Guaranteed.
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As far a offense goes, it would be nice if Tyson found a way to shoot free throws as well as he has in the past. That alone would be worth a couple points per game.
lougehrig said:
In the last 29 games he is averaging 3.9 offensive boards per game (would rank him 1st in the league), 10.7 boards per game (would rank him 6th in the league) and 1.65 blocks per game (would be around 15th in the league). This is all while playing only 29 minutes per night. Everyone was talking about how we would rather have Dalembert. Look at his numbers lately. In my opinion, Tyson is the least of our problems right now. He will continue to develop his offensive game, but right now why are we worried about that? We need to figure out our rotation and who our star players are going to be. We needs some bigs who can post and relieve pressure on him on the inside. He is a good building block and we are better off with him than without. He is already pretty good and will only get better.
That is the key, Tyson needs a big player next to him who plays good man defense to compliment Tyson's good help defense. And the team in general needs a good inside scorer, but we have been through this issue a million times. Maybe Nene or Wilcox in free agency is the solution, or maybe O'Bryant or someone else from the draft will solve the problem.
smARTmouf said:
Bet money Tyson has a jump shot.

Skiles is just such a jerk, he has Tyson too scared to show it off.

NO CONFIDENCE...Skiles isn't the best @ fostering that AT ALL....One reason why I sometimes think twice about the guy as our head coach.

Tyson needs to follow the yellow brick road and ask the wizard for CONFIDENCE.

We'll see a much better player....Guaranteed.
Ahh the poor baby, does someone need to give Tyson a blanky and some tissues for his sniffles ?
smARTmouf said:
Bet money Tyson has a jump shot.

Skiles is just such a jerk, he has Tyson too scared to show it off.

NO CONFIDENCE...Skiles isn't the best @ fostering that AT ALL....One reason why I sometimes think twice about the guy as our head coach.

Tyson needs to follow the yellow brick road and ask the wizard for CONFIDENCE.

We'll see a much better player....Guaranteed.
Ron... I believe you wanted.. examples?
Tyson is even complaining about Tyson. He knows he needs to play consistantly and also improve on offense to be even more of an impact player.

We saw what he did last year, his contract year. This year he came in and was not ready at all. He gets paid millions of dollars a year to "be ready." He knows he wasnt.

I think Tyson can average a double-double eventually. But he will never be a huge scorer.

He has been playing better. But isnt that what he is suppose to do all year long? He thinks it is or else he would not have said what he said to the media about this summer.
It's because the new contract.

I'm not sure if people thought Tyson's offensive play would magically improve to bring his value up to par with his contract.

What I did expect though was for Tyson to be the same impact player he was last season. He's shown it at time but not nearly as consistantly as last year.

Perhaps next season when he's not the only defender on the front line, when he's not trying too hard to impress and when he's put in a decent offseason of work Tyson will exceed last seasons production and be the 10 pt, 12 reb 2 block guy he showed signs of being last season.
TripleDouble said:
It's because the new contract.

I'm not sure if people thought Tyson's offensive play would magically improve to bring his value up to par with his contract.

What I did expect though was for Tyson to be the same impact player he was last season. He's shown it at time but not nearly as consistantly as last year.

Perhaps next season when he's not the only defender on the front line, when he's not trying too hard to impress and when he's put in a decent offseason of work Tyson will exceed last seasons production and be the 10 pt, 12 reb 2 block guy he showed signs of being last season.
Well put! Exactly!
tyson is a disappointment .

point blank , that simple.

he is a young guy who has regressed this season , he wasn't injured but didn't work in the offseason and his game suffered .

i dont think anyone would accept a player whose game dropped off just when it was supposed to explode or at least keep growing he is only 23, if ben was a worse defender this season does anyone think he would be spared for it just becasue he was a bull.

the main problem with his offensive production is that tyson is basically disinterested with scoring, just by running the floor and offensive rebounds he should avg. a bunch more , but he doesn't really try on offense to put points on the board, its not like the opposing defenses are gearing to stop him...in my opinion he has accepted being a role player , and if thats all he wants then thats what he should be paid as. he asked for a star's money so he should at least try to be one.
Da Grinch said:
tyson is a disappointment .

point blank , that simple.

he is a young guy who has regressed this season , he wasn't injured but didn't work in the offseason and his game suffered .

i dont think anyone would accept a player whose game dropped off just when it was supposed to explode or at least keep growing he is only 23, if ben was a worse defender this season does anyone think he would be spared for it just becasue he was a bull.

the main problem with his offensive production is that tyson is basically disinterested with scoring, just by running the floor and offensive rebounds he should avg. a bunch more , but he doesn't really try on offense to put points on the board, its not like the opposing defenses are gearing to stop him...in my opinion he has accepted being a role player , and if thats all he wants then thats what he should be paid as. he asked for a star's money so he should at least try to be one.
There are some fair points in here. I'm not sure I want Chandler to try and be a star but it's somewhat baffling that a guy averaging 3.4 offensive rebounds a game is averaging 5.2 points.
Da Grinch said:
tyson is a disappointment .

point blank , that simple.

he is a young guy who has regressed this season , he wasn't injured but didn't work in the offseason and his game suffered .
how has he regressed?

last 28 games of 2005 season (regarded as the best play from Tyson and the basis for his contract):
9.6 ppg, 1.5 blocks her game, 3.5 offensive per game, 10.5 rpg

last 29 games of 2006 season (a complete regression and disappointment apparrantly):
5.2 ppg, 1.66 blocks per game, 3.9 offensive per game, 10.8 rpg

so the HUGE regression is 4.4 ppg? granted his play should have been like this all season, but i am willing to buy into the health issues, not working out issues over the summer...he is alot more consistent the last 29 games than at any other point last year or in his career...
lougehrig said:
how has he regressed?

last 28 games of 2005 season (regarded as the best play from Tyson and the basis for his contract):
9.6 ppg, 1.5 blocks her game, 3.5 offensive per game, 10.5 rpg

last 29 games of 2006 season (a complete regression and disappointment apparrantly):
5.2 ppg, 1.66 blocks per game, 3.9 offensive per game, 10.8 rpg

so the HUGE regression is 4.4 ppg? granted his play should have been like this all season, but i am willing to buy into the health issues, not working out issues over the summer...he is alot more consistent the last 29 games than at any other point last year or in his career...
What health issues? I like Chandler fine, but you would be hard pressed to find anyone else who has averaged 5.2 PPG in the first year of a 60 million dollar deal. Yeah, half as many points is a big regression, particularly when you're talking about a young player who's supposed to be improving.
I stop complaining once he earns that 60+ mil and at least come close to Elton Brands production.
Elton Brand makes $85M. Chandler is a better rebounder and interior defender than Brand.

Why is everyone so obsessed with Chandler's points per game? Are they looking for a reason to find fault in his game?

Ben Wallace averages 7 ppg and no one ever complains about that. (Going to make $10M+ per season)

Dennis Rodman only averaged 5 ppg in his three years with the Bulls. No one ever complained about that (even though he average 28ppg in college). (Made $10M+ per season).

Chandler is paid to rebound and play interior defense and act as an intimidator. These are things he does well. He currently LEADS the NBA in rebounds per 48 minutes. 4th in the leage in offensive rebounding.

If we are coming up short in alot of games and are struggling to find enough offense to win, how about we blame the players who are paid to score points and generate offense? Like Gordon, Deng, Hinrich, Duhon.

The difference between us being a 50 win team and a 35 win team is NOT Chandler's ppg. It's the lack of a go-to guy late in the game, it's the lack of a go-to 20+ ppg scorer, it's the lack of a power forward who can post and find his own shot, it's the lack of a star, veteran leader.
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lougehrig said:
Elton Brand makes $85M. Chandler is a better rebounder and interior defender than Brand.
I like Chandler and I still consider it a good signing. I've seen him bounce back admirably from his horrid and inexcusable first half of the season, and I think he'll have a solid year next year and beyond.

That said, I think its very debateable that Chandler is a better rebounder and interior defender than Brand. In fact, as of right now, I'd say he's not. Its not all about stats. Consistency is important too.
Elton Brand makes $85M. Chandler is a better rebounder and interior defender than Brand.
This is a really tough sell. You can say what you want about the per 48 minute stats, that if Chandler were on the floor for 40 mpg like Brand is he'd definitely be getting more rebounds and blocks... but Chandler does NOT stay on the floor for 40 mpg and that's his own fault, because of the personal fouls. Brand gets 2.9 a game in his 40 mpg; Chandler gets 3.8 in his 27 mpg.

Brand is a career 10.4 rpg and 2.0 bpg guy. I can't think of many guys in the league that are that good as "rebounding and interior defense", not that blocks explain everything. But the Clippers allow fewer points than the Bulls do, and is ranked 4th in opp. FG%, a stat that we're so proud of. Brand is the best defender on an extremely good defensive team.

In any event. Tyson isn't supposed to be a scorer, I agree, and there's not a ton to complain about, except when he can't stay on the floor and sometimes makes mistakes that make him look like he's a rookie, not a 5th year vet. He hasn't done enough to fall off the map, though, certainly, and if he lives up to his word in terms of the offseason, then of course he has the chance to still be a fantastic player. He already leads the defense and when he's playing well, the team is much, much better with him on the floor than without.
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Pippenatorade said:
Ron... I believe you wanted.. examples?
There's one. Well done.
lougehrig said:
Elton Brand makes $85M. Chandler is a better rebounder and interior defender than Brand.
Wrong. Chandler MAY be a better help defender than Brand, but as an interior defender he's not even close. Unlike Chandler, Brand knows how to put the requisite work in to get better.

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Why is everyone so obsessed with Chandler's points per game? Are they looking for a reason to find fault in his game?
Why were some people obsessed with Curry's RPG? Why are some obsessed with Dumars RPG?

Man, how could you not get this? Chandler is making 63 million, and he can't even put up 31.5 million type offense. People wanted Curry to play worth his contract a year BEFORE he got it. Now there are some talking about letting Chandler have until a year after to start earning his money. Chandler's offense is worse than when he was a rookie and Curry and Chandler were two of the worst players in the NBA as rookies.

It's not an obsession, it's called demanding competence in exchange for 63 mill.

Ben Wallace averages 7 ppg and no one ever complains about that. (Going to make $10M+ per season)
MY GOD will people STOP bringing up Ben Wallace like Tyson is anything like Ben Wallace. How many DPOYs has Chandler won? How many All-Defensive teams has Chandler headed? How man All Star games has Chandler made? Ben Wallace is everything Chandler's fans try to ACT like Chandler is.

Dennis Rodman only averaged 5 ppg in his three years with the Bulls. No one ever complained about that (even though he average 28ppg in college). (Made $10M+ per season).
We were winning championships and Rodman was one of the main reasons why. How many times did he lead the NBA in RPG? And not RP 48 minutes... RPG. While being an all league defender, and again, a multiple DPOY winner.

Rodman and Wallace are/were good enough to earn their contracts on one side of the floor. Chandler is not.

Chandler is paid to rebound and play interior defense and act as an intimidator. These are things he does well. He currently LEADS the NBA in rebounds per 48 minutes. 4th in the leage in offensive rebounding.
Says YOU. He's not GOOD ENOUGH to get paid for one side of the floor. Also, lol, Tyson doesn't intimidate bleep.

I'm so sick of stats per 48 minutes. Barkley slammed that one against the wall.

Tyson is a good help defender, as a man defender he's severely lacking. He gets backed down by just about anyone, and anyone coming right at him has a decent chance to finish.

If we are coming up short in alot of games and are struggling to find enough offense to win, how about we blame the players who are paid to score points and generate offense? Like Gordon, Deng, Hinrich, Duhon.
You want to blame any one of those five players over Chandler? OMG. Duhon and Hinrich showed up for the first HALF of the season. As did Gordon and Deng.
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