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Discussion Starter · #1 ·
i dont know what the consensus is around here, but its clear that he's made them a threat in the east under his limited tenure, and he's not even finished!! i hear he's close to landing either rasheed or shareef. are we just cheap? i just dont get it

whats the deal? did he just simply have more to work with and more to offer or what? i just dont want to hear the managment claiming they want to win NOW, because thats a lie. just say we're STILL rebuilding and start our future leaders until they foul out.

that would do wonders for eddy's cornbread butt. it's like, please stop torturing us, let us know the deal so our expectations aren't constantly crushed.
 

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Yes, he simply had more to work with.

He had one of the biggest expiring contracts in the league who happens to be a very decent player and can contribute for the remainder of the season.

He also has the makings of very high quality players, and has the pedigree and the name and the connections to get top coaches.

Paxson got Skiles, very much his kind of man. Thomas got Wilkens, also very much his kind of guy.

The Knicks had legitimate scorers in Houston and Van Horn, legitimate defensive intensity in Thomas and Mutombo, and legitimate youth movements in Frank Williams and Sweetney, along with some role players like Shandon Anderson.

He kept what was good, got rid of what wasn't, and added the spark that the team needs to make all the pieces start to work: Starbury.

The Bulls do NOT have legitimate scorers (Rose was our only one, and he's not the guy you want on a team). The Bulls do NOT have legitimate defensive intensity (Chandler when he's healthy, which he isn't, and JYD who is a bench defender, not super-high quality). The Bulls have only one player in a true youth movement (Hinrich), and the rest of the team is a bunch of underachievers or confused players. The coach is doing his best but the fact is, when you don't have much to work with, you don't have much to work with.
 

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The Knicks are 5-4 since the trade, but they were 5-4 before the trade in the nine games before the trade, too. Who have they played for their wins? Chicago, Toronto, Orlando, Seattle, Milwaukee.

So they make the play-offs in the East. Thomas has ruined this team for the foreseeable future. Why do we want to do this?
 

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Originally posted by <b>Wynn</b>!
The Knicks are 5-4 since the trade, but they were 5-4 before the trade in the nine games before the trade, too. Who have they played for their wins? Chicago, Toronto, Orlando, Seattle, Milwaukee.

So they make the play-offs in the East. Thomas has ruined this team for the foreseeable future. Why do we want to do this?
I agree, I dont like Thomas's moves for the long term future of the Knicks.

Now why cant Pax be active and aggressive like Thomas? My answer is going to be a bit controversial. First let me say that I was born and raised in Chicago and loved every second of living there. But the difference between NYC and Chicago is night and day.

NYers simply dont accept losing. Its a fast pace city that is both far richer and far more demanding then chicago. Its probably a more desirable city to live in to the average NBA player. In chicago, the Bulls put out a Piece of Crap product for 4 or 5 years now and people still come. There is zero sense of urgency. The crowd only got around to booing this year. Next is Atlanta like empthy seats. knick fans boo GOOD TEAMS cause they demand GREAT teams. I think the average joe in Chicago is happy supporing mediocre to good teams. The owners dont feel the urgency cause of this complacency. Thomas was fed an order from Dolan on day one. NO REBUILDING. And Thomas is doing what he can to put a product out right now that can win. He is doing his job. and the future to him is irrelavent since you cant count on it. people in NYC know that first hand (9/11). Its just one mans opinion and not an indictment on city life. just reality.
 

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With the difference the Bulls won 6 titles in the last 15 years and New York is still going after 1 since 1973. A huge difference.
 

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Simple reason is the Bulls can't afford to be $50 million over the salary cap every season. So the Knicks can mortgage their future now and still have money to sign / trade for players with high salaries (Marbury) in the future. This will create a decent team every year, but never a championship team.
 

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Originally posted by <b>rlucas4257</b>!
NYers simply dont accept losing. Its a fast pace city that is both far richer and far more demanding then chicago. Its probably a more desirable city to live in to the average NBA player. In chicago, the Bulls put out a Piece of Crap product for 4 or 5 years now and people still come. There is zero sense of urgency. The crowd only got around to booing this year. Next is Atlanta like empthy seats. knick fans boo GOOD TEAMS cause they demand GREAT teams. I think the average joe in Chicago is happy supporing mediocre to good teams. The owners dont feel the urgency cause of this complacency. Thomas was fed an order from Dolan on day one. NO REBUILDING. And Thomas is doing what he can to put a product out right now that can win. He is doing his job. and the future to him is irrelavent since you cant count on it. people in NYC know that first hand (9/11). Its just one mans opinion and not an indictment on city life. just reality.
Great post. Talk to any serious NY sports fan and after 5 minutes you should realize something. They feel a sense of entitlement to win everything all the time. The mentality is so much different than with Chicago fans.
 

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Originally posted by <b>curry_52</b>!
With the difference the Bulls won 6 titles in the last 15 years and New York is still going after 1 since 1973. A huge difference.
But the reality is we LUCKED into those 6 titles. Getting Jordan is a once a lifetime luck job for Chicago. Ironically, most of us now hate the guy which is plain and utter stupidity. But no Jordan, no titles.

When you look at it from a bigger perspective look at the yankees vs our Cubs and White Sox. Take Jordans 6 titles away and the Knicks have got 2 and a couple of appearances recntely in the finals. The Rangers won a stanley cup recently ( 5 or 6 years ago) the Islanders use to win all the time, the Blackhawks never. The Bears won one superbowl in the 80s, the Giants won 2 with less talent I think. The Giants recently got to a superbowl, the Jets made the AFC finals. The reason this is, is cause of money, which NY as a city has a ton more then Chicago, and the demanind behavior of the fans. Chicagoans accept rebuilding and taking a couple of bad years. NYers simply wont. When did Bulls fans ever have a Fire Krause or Fire McCaskey Chant? Knicks fans have that same chant after every loss no matter if they are over or under 500
 

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Originally posted by <b>rlucas4257</b>!


But the reality is we LUCKED into those 6 titles. Getting Jordan is a once a lifetime luck job for Chicago. Ironically, most of us now hate the guy which is plain and utter stupidity. But no Jordan, no titles.

When you look at it from a bigger perspective look at the yankees vs our Cubs and White Sox. Take Jordans 6 titles away and the Knicks have got 2 and a couple of appearances recntely in the finals. The Rangers won a stanley cup recently ( 5 or 6 years ago) the Islanders use to win all the time, the Blackhawks never. The Bears won one superbowl in the 80s, the Giants won 2 with less talent I think. The Giants recently got to a superbowl, the Jets made the AFC finals. The reason this is, is cause of money, which NY as a city has a ton more then Chicago, and the demanind behavior of the fans. Chicagoans accept rebuilding and taking a couple of bad years. NYers simply wont. When did Bulls fans ever have a Fire Krause or Fire McCaskey Chant? Knicks fans have that same chant after every loss no matter if they are over or under 500
Yes, the Bulls "lucked" into Jordan, but the Spurs "lucked" into Duncan and Robinson, the Knicks "lucked" into Ewing. The lottos went their way and Sam Bowie didn't go ours. By that argument, any great player obtained through the draft is by luck, unless they are picked in the late first or second round I suppose.

There's just something degrading about looking at it that way, I think.
 

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Originally posted by <b>Darius Miles Davis</b>!


Yes, the Bulls "lucked" into Jordan, but the Spurs "lucked" into Duncan and Robinson, the Knicks "lucked" into Ewing. The lottos went their way and Sam Bowie didn't go ours. By that argument, any great player obtained through the draft is by luck, unless they are picked in the late first or second round I suppose.

There's just something degrading about looking at it that way, I think.
Jordan defies logic. plain and simple. Jordan would have won anywhere. He carried our city to 6 titles. Degrading or not, thats a fact. Call it what you want, but we lucked out far more then anyone else did. And the simple fact remains that NY teams are technically more successful to chicago teams based on the attitude and demands of the cities. DMD you should know that as a NYer!
 

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Originally posted by <b>rlucas4257</b>!


Jordan defies logic. plain and simple. Jordan would have won anywhere. He carried our city to 6 titles. Degrading or not, thats a fact. Call it what you want, but we lucked out far more then anyone else did. And the simple fact remains that NY teams are technically more successful to chicago teams based on the attitude and demands of the cities. DMD you should know that as a NYer!
I suppose. I definitely feel lucky that I was a Bulls fan in Chicago during the 90's. Are we lucky the greatest player ever played for our team and won for us? Sure.

Believe me, I know all about the New York way, and this city is great, but I hang on to more than a little bit of my Chicago blue collar spirit when this New York entitlement BS gets a bit much for me. And don't think I get more than a little pleasure out of the fact that despite the money and the expectations, every New York team, save the Yankees, is pretty bad.
 

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Originally posted by <b>Darius Miles Davis</b>!


I suppose. I definitely feel lucky that I was a Bulls fan in Chicago during the 90's. Are we lucky the greatest player ever played for our team and won for us? Sure.

Believe me, I know all about the New York way, and this city is great, but I hang on to more than a little bit of my Chicago blue collar spirit when this New York entitlement BS gets a bit much for me. And don't think I get more than a little pleasure out of the fact that despite the money and the expectations, every New York team, save the Yankees, is pretty bad.
this year, certainly. in recent history they have all have had some success. I suppose thats the difference. White Sox fans would just be happy for a 500 record for instance. Mets fans think they should win a title, and spend like they are under the gun, even though they still stink. But you have to atleast give them kudos for effort
 

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Isiah has mortaged the Knicks future with the hope that the current squad is good enough to win a championship. The only way they can now improve is if Sweetney becomes good. They have no significant young players, draft picks, or cap room.

But NYC is a buzz and that is what matters to Dolan and co.
 

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Discussion Starter · #14 ·
without sounding corny...you guys rule...this is why i come here


thanks for the insightful responses...all of which make a ton of sense...now i wont be wondering why why why...

as a bulls fan for life...i'm hurt...i need to see my bulls in the limelight again...its seriously depressing...if it takes the united center looking like an atlanta hawks home game then by all means...stay at home with the kiddies and watch some reality television...

we need a nice dose of luck right about now in other words T mac demanding a trade and drafting emeka....that would be a great start
 

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Originally posted by <b>TripleDouble</b>!
Isiah has mortaged the Knicks future with the hope that the current squad is good enough to win a championship. The only way they can now improve is if Sweetney becomes good. They have no significant young players, draft picks, or cap room.

But NYC is a buzz and that is what matters to Dolan and co.
My sentiments exactly.

the roster they have now, is how it will be for awhile as far as the main pieces. They may dupe Portland into trading Wallace for someone like Van Horn before the deadline just so Portland can get rid of him, but thats about it. Even that is doubtful though.

Thomas hands are tied. If he can pull a brilliant move NOW, with his circumstances, then he will gets much props from me.

I like the trade he made, because Marbury is happy to be in NY and that has elevated his play. Thomas went after the right guy which is smart, but its hardly a stroke of genius. The draft picks and young talent is where the trade will even out. Lampe and the first rounders, NY will miss those.
 
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