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Chillin'
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Discussion Starter #1
As Raptors fans, we've all seen tons of horrible calls go against us over the years (Darrell Armstrong fouls Vince on a 3 that would have won the game, no call; Tracy Murray's 3 that was clearly before the buzzer and would have tied the game didn't count, are just a couple examples) but the past few games have been just downright horrible.

So why do the refs hate us? Seriously I don't think any team gets treated worse than the Raptors by the refs. It's ridiculous, the NBA really needs new refs.


By the way, if anyone has good seats and can get on TV (I know it's not very likely but hey, why not?) then bring a huge sign that says something along the lines of "REFS SUCK". That'd be a good way to get the point accross...
 

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I agree the refs gotta start making the calls that are nessicary...the Refs in sports this year have been DAMN BLIND this year...did the league pay the refs to not to call calls that could help us..But yeah someone bring a sign that says REFS SUCK!..Im sure it would get taken away
 

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Go to the raptors home page and right in the middle of the first headline there is a huge picture of Jermaine hitting Carters arm on the so called "no call" on Vinces dunk attempt last night.. i mean this is just outragous... like he was about to posterize oneal so oneal shoved his arm and tehre was no call again. i am gettin really pissed about this no call ****..honestly. and when it shoudl be a no call the raps geta foul... ****in refs piss me off... the raptors will never make the playoffs again if it were up to the refs
 

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leafs get treated the same..i think iz cuz we're canadian and the americans are jeallous of us:yes: :yes: :yes:
 

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Half the people on this site complain about this, and they aren't all Raptors fans. Simply put, the refs just aren't that good right now. It hits most everyone, not just one team.
 

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Chillin'
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Discussion Starter #7
Originally posted by <b>MJG</b>!
Half the people on this site complain about this, and they aren't all Raptors fans. Simply put, the refs just aren't that good right now. It hits most everyone, not just one team.
Sure it's bad right now for most teams, but anyone who's watched the Raptors for the majority of their existence knows they've been making horrible calls against us for a long time. And I guarantee most of it is becuase they play in Canada.
 

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How do the refs benefit from making bad calls? The only way I can think of is if someone bribes them.
 

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My bad, I didn't mean to affend you ElevatorMan. I just don't get where refs would ever get the motivation to make a bad call on purpose. I've never been to Canada so i don't see what the big difference is between Canada and the US. In my opinion its just another very big state. The same thing happened to the Heat when Haslem was fouled on a shot that would have tied the game up with the Pistons. Maybe the refs make bad calls because the Raptors and Heat dont have very good records.
 

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Originally posted by <b><< SkipToMyLou >></b>!
I've never been to Canada so i don't see what the big difference is between Canada and the US. In my opinion its just another very big state.

R u kidding me?:rolleyes: :rolleyes:

I love americans:|
 

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I don't think the refs are extra-bias when it comes to the Raptors. The refs just suck this year, and have made several stupid calls this season. If you go to other boards, chances are you will find some reference to how the refs are "unfair" to their teams too (on game threads).
 

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A foul is a foul. I don't subscribe to these theories about players "earning" free throws by playing a certain way consistently. If that's the way that refs call games, which is impossible to determine, then they aren't doing their jobs.
 

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First let me say that I do agree that the Raptors do not get the 'home' calls that other teams routinely get. We have no home court advantage with the refs, and it hurts us.

Speedy, I don't know if it is the consistancy thing or not.

I think it is more like knowing the 'street rules' as opposed to the written rules. Like driving a car. The posted speed limit on Ontario highways is 100 km. But everyone knows you are pretty safe from a ticket if you stay under 120.

Now would VC drive his car at 100 and scream at the police for not writing tickets on the other drivers. Or would he play by the 'real life' rules and take advantage of the 120.

Same on the court. VC is expecting the written rules to be enforced while guys like Iverson, and Rip Hamilton, KG, Duncan, etc all take advantage of the way the refs really call the game.

VC has to run over players in the restricted area. Put his knee right in their grill. Make them feel the pain and then get called for the foul on top of it. He has to bring his shooting arm righ through the arm of the defender, creating contact. VC avoids the
hard contact and throws up awkward looking shots that the refs don't want to reward with a bail out.
 

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Originally posted by <b>Mattsanity</b>!
They hate us because they are dissapointed by the fact that basketball originated in canada.
It didn't...it originated in the Boston area. By a canadian
 

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i don't know whether i have a theory on this. i happen to think there are too many variables involved to arrive at a confident conclusion. simply put, i don't think the refs "hate the raps"- at least not consciously. i mean, these guys have jobs to do. they're being pressured by the league to officiate every game like they would any other, and have no reason to succumb to some superficial bias- in the event that there WAS any superficial bias in the first place (which is unlikely).

i think there are some intangible factors about raptors games (and specifically vince carter) that may...sort of...kind of... lead to refs not giving us the calls they'd easily give to, for example, allen iverson or stephon marbury.

for one, since he has the ball the majority of the time, i think vince carter's facial expressions don't garner any empathy from the refs. he's so consistent in the facial looks he gives (and complaints he offers) to the refs, it's almost uncanny. i have a feeling that in the subconscious mind of each respective nba referee, they're thinking "man, what a wuss." truth be told, there might be reason to feel that way (provided they DO feel that way), since our franchise superstar happens to complain about non-calls whether they ARE or they AREN'T "non-calls".

in other words, vince just complains when things don't go his way. sometimes he is rightfully angered by non-calls, sure, but other times he's not- and referees remember the latter. vince complains the same way whether the refs get the correct call or not: it's always about vince not making the shot- and rarely about the foul not being called. the latter here is just an excuse to vent some anger with respect to the FORMER. i don't know if nba referees appreciate vince's kind of self-serving agenda- whether they know they do is another story.

i think they understand that vince will complain, and further understand that vince will not necessarily complain about a foul as much as he'll complain that he missed an important shot (and squandered an important possession). there's a grey area there, and it exists at the direct expense of vince carter.

of course, players like iverson want calls that aren't fouls, either, and on a regular basis. it's just that, for whatever reason, iverson has a different reputation- and he elicits different reactions from the referees. it might be because of some "je-ne-sais-quoi" character attribute that iverson has (and that vince doesn't) or it might not be quite so simple.

the bottom line is that i think this discussion could go on forever. i think there's something almost impossible to pinpoint that is making life very difficult for the raptors (and specifically VC) at the moment. i've always thought that "hall of fame" success (and even championships) was the result of certain intangible things, and not necessarily "obvious" qualities like talent or skill. i think people judge each other on vapours in this world (and on the court), whether they know it or not, and vince gives off the wrong kind of vapours. vince also rubs off on the referees' treatment of his own teammates, and that ultimately makes his team's dilemma exponentially worse.

sure, the attempted slam against indy may or may not have been a foul. that's not the point. the point is that if it were almost ANY other superstar in this league, the whistle would have blown. i mean, if iverson had gone up with some 7 footer leaving his feet (under the basket) to affect his dunk attempt, it wouldn't have even been an issue. seriously. it would have been a foul- no questions asked. vince on JO happened so fast that, again without knowing it, the refs would have called it without even considering the call if it were some other superstar (like AI) going up for the flush. in this case, it would have just been ASSUMED that AI got fouled. whether he did or he didn't would've been secondary- almost irrelevant.

the same treatment would have held for, off the top of my head, marbury, garnett, duncan, kobe, t-mac, francis, bron, pierce (especially him), artest, webber, nowitzki, even jermaine himself.

so why not for vince? i guess you could ask yourself that question till the cows came home, but it wouldn't make a difference. i think it's something behind-the-scenes and intangible, something that is absolutely too complex to simplify.

the point is that there's almost nothing anyone can do about it. it's gonna be that way until something grey changes to white or black. the one thing i do know is that the raptors can't continue to use those instances as excuses because that'll only hurt them in the long run. i don't care if it happens on 10 consecutive possessions- the raptors can't resign themselves to failure. they have to concoct some action plan to win ANYWAY, to somehow enjoy success in the shadow of such perceived "injustices".

they haven't yet done that and it's been several years already. there's been no solution presented from anyone's office- players, coaches, execs or otherwise. i reckon it's time someone stepped up to the microphone. we can't continue to lose games because we do or don't get a handful of calls; we have to accept the reality of operating on a team that features vince carter as its prime cogpiece... and then move forward.

peace
 
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