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Discussion Starter · #1 ·
Everybody's looking for answers as to why Curry doesn't seem to get it. Why he isn't competitive or aggressive. Why he's, more or less, lazy.

The answer, in my estimation, is pretty simple. To understand a player's development, you must truly understand where a player is coming from. As with any person, how they are reared in their "formative" years has a very direct impact on what you see out of them as an adult. The perspective on life learned from childhood is carried on throughout life, unless a drastic event causes a personal shift in paradigm.

The bottom line is, Eddy Curry was not a competitive athlete growing up. He didn't really start playing basketball competitively until the middle of high school.

Every great competitor I've ever seen or known started being competitive at an early age. They played sports at the most competitive levels from age 5 or 6. They played OTHER sports competitively and learned what competition is all about.

True competitors have such a strong will to win that it fuels their desire to work tirelessly to improve themselves. They work because they HATE to lose. All of the best athletes and competitors I knew growing up were the type of kids who were tough as nails on the court. They would get elbowed in the face and start bleeding and barely bat an eyelash. But they cried like babies when they lost games. They just can't handle losing. I can bet you Hinrich and Skiles were just like this as kids.

Eddy, on the other hand, was never reared like this. He never had this competitive fire ingrained into him. He basically became a sensation overnight, and you better believe he was coddled his whole way through HS. (Any coach that didn't demand Eddy get more than 9 rpg was obviously letting the inmate run the asylum) You can bet Eddy didn't do much running or conditioning either.

All of the sudden, in the blink of an eye, this prospect is making millions in the NBA, and for a couple of less-than-demanding coaches. He's playing for a losing team where losing is most definitely a habit. When it comes down to it, he's never had a reason to break his complacency towards losing.

And I don't mean to indict Eddy as a person by any means. I am merely offering an explanation of why he is the way he is, what makes him tick. He is still very much a boy in terms of his outlook, in that his thoughts are inwardly focused. He thinks "how does this affect me?" rather than "how does this affect the team?"

Until now, he probably thought he was actually working hard. Skiles has forced him to put in the extra work and now Eddy's truly beginning to understand what hard work is. Hopefully Skiles is instilling some values of competitiveness and self-sacrifice. I think he's gotten Eddy off on the right foot, and I'm eager to see how Eddy responds as the year goes on.

Soon Eddy's internal thoughts will look more like "running this wind sprint may be tough, but it's making me a better player and helping the team" rather than "aww man, I'm tired, I wish I didn't have to run another windsprint". And when this paradigm shift occurs, I firmly believe we will begin to see the dominant force that we all know he's capable of being.

I'm happy to see Skiles in charge because he's clearly the man to instill these values, and I'm afraid Cartwright would have just let Eddy slip further down his slippery slope of complacency.
 

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I don't know if Rodman played other sports growing up (I am guessing that given his nature he didn't) but we do know he didn't start playing basketball until after HS.

Rodman Career

Full Name: Dennis Keith Rodman
Born: 5/31/61 in Trenton, N.J.
High School: South Oak Cliff (Dallas); did not play basketball
Junior College: Cooke County (Texas)
College: Southeastern Oklahoma State
Drafted by: Detroit Pistons (1986)
I agree with the basic premise of your post, but there are exceptions...
 

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Poor High School Coaching it dooms a lot of players. Players are made in high school. A lot of what you are as a bball player is developed by a good high school.
 

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Rollin Wit Da Homies
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Michael Jordan wasn't playing competitive basketball until halfway through high school either, you know. He played it for fun when he was younger, but he was always more into baseball than basketball until sophomore or junior year in high school.
 

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Discussion Starter · #6 ·
Michael Jordan wasn't playing competitive basketball until halfway through high school either, you know. He played it for fun when he was younger, but he was always more into baseball than basketball until sophomore or junior year in high school.
Wrong, wrong and wrong. Michael played all sports competitively from an early age, including tackle football. I mean, how can you even try and make the contention that he didn't play "competitive" basketball until halfway through high school? He suited up for his HS all four years. He just didn't make Varsity until he was a sophomore (or junior, I forget exactly), but he still played JV beginning his freshman year. And he played on his junior high team before that.

Frankly you just missed the point of my entire post. I'm not claiming that competitiveness is ONLY instilled if you play three levels above you growing up. It's just that those athletes who play several sports at an organized level and excel at those sports get ingrained at an early age with a competitive fire. MJ certainly reared himself along these lines. The only sport Eddy ever "competed" in at an earlier age was gymnastics, which just isn't the same as team sports.
 

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Originally posted by <b>Showtyme</b>!
Michael Jordan wasn't playing competitive basketball until halfway through high school either, you know. He played it for fun when he was younger, but he was always more into baseball than basketball until sophomore or junior year in high school.
True. But to ChiBullsFan's point above he was playing competitive sports from a young age - he played Little League right?
(EDIT: and per ChiBulls post above, tackle football!)

And to the point about Hinrich and Skiles being that way as kids, well I don't know about Skiles but I pulled this quote off of Bulls.com:

"He was always a good athlete,” Nancy says proudly. “Not just a good basketball player, but he was a good baseball player, a good runner, and a good soccer player. But he loved basketball most. He was in the gym all the time.”

“He loved to compete with anything that had a ball,” says Jim Hinrich, who coached his son from an early age. “If it had to do with competition, he was really into it. If he had a Little League [baseball] game at 8:00 in the evening, he was ready to go to the field at 8:00 in the morning. He’d ask every two or three hours how much time we had before the start of the game.

“He’s always been very competitive. He probably gets that from Nancy."

:)

I am not comparing KH and EC's upbringing or abilities or parents or whatever, ok? I agree with ChiBulls that the desire to win and hating to lose in competitive sports is formed at a very young age and if Eddy did not have that instilled into him at a young age what do you think are the chances of Skiles being able do it? We'll have to see what the summer of tough love brings! :grinning:
 

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I stand corrected, though I would contend that the fact that Jordan didn't make the Varsity squad til junior year must have destroyed him. And JV ball isn't really competitive...

But you're right about the Little League and all that. Wait, so Eddy Curry has never competed in anything ever? Wow. That's definitely a good point to raise.
 

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Discussion Starter · #9 ·
I'm sure Eddy dabbled in some sports when he was younger, but nothing competitively. He played on the playground, not in organied leagues, tournaments and the like.


Another aspect I forgot to mention regarding competitive upbringing is the influence of siblings. MJ's older brother Larry was a pretty good athlete in his own right and I know Michael credits him with pushing him. A lot of times you'll notice that in families with three or four relatively accomplished athletes, it's the youngest one that turns out to be the real star. Getting beaten up and pushed around can definitely make you more competitive at an early age.
 

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Exceptions noted, this is still an excellent post.

What a player looks forward to when he enters the NBA tells a lot about him.

Kobe, just for example, wanted to be the best player in the league.

Eddy, I don't think, ever looked at the game the way the greats do and did. He suddenly realized he had this talent, and it could earn him a lot of money.

I'm not even sure that he'd be a fan of the game if it wern't his meal ticket.

In high school, he probably only thought about the glory---being rich, traveling with the fellas, being away from his parents, the girls---and hey! I can score too!

His next contract is guaranteed--just because of the potential he has.

And thats what makes managements job with him so tough. He knows that if it doesn't come from Pax, it'll come from someone else.

He''s living a dream. So far he's got what he wants and everything else is an annoyance.
 

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Originally posted by <b>Showtyme</b>!
I stand corrected, though I would contend that the fact that Jordan didn't make the Varsity squad til junior year must have destroyed him. And JV ball isn't really competitive...

But you're right about the Little League and all that. Wait, so Eddy Curry has never competed in anything ever? Wow. That's definitely a good point to raise.
MJ made varsity his sophmore year. And regarding him not making it his freshman year, James Worthy had something interesting to say about that. I read in an article several years ago that Worthy just laughs whenever he hears that story about how MJ was cut from the varsity team his freshman year. He stated something along the lines that the way his HS (or NC HSs?) were set up, freshman weren't allowed on the varsity team. Worthy also continued and said something along the lines that everyone knew MJ was the best player in the state even as a freshman.

Not sure how much truth there is to that, but I definitely read that in the Sun Times several years ago.
 

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Originally posted by <b>sp00k</b>!


MJ made varsity his sophmore year. And regarding him not making it his freshman year, James Worthy had something interesting to say about that. I read in an article several years ago that Worthy just laughs whenever he hears that story about how MJ was cut from the varsity team his freshman year. He stated something along the lines that the way his HS (or NC HSs?) were set up, freshman weren't allowed on the varsity team. Worthy also continued and said something along the lines that everyone knew MJ was the best player in the state even as a freshman.

Not sure how much truth there is to that, but I definitely read that in the Sun Times several years ago.
I just finished David Halberstams book on MJ. He reports that he was cut because the coaches felt he'd do better playing the majority of minutes on the freshman squad, than coming off the bench in relief on the varsity.

It may be revisionism---but Halberstam impressed the heck out of me with his thoroughness. It's a great read.
 

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Eddy just doesn't have that fire! Don't bank on him being the dominate center Krause invisioned. He's gonna be good one day, maybe a consitant 20pt, 7reb, 1blk type center. He'll never be great, or finish his career as even one of the all time great centers. He just doesn't have that drive to accomplish that.

In a way you can say the same about Jamal.....He wants to win, but it seems to me he wants to do it his way. Last year when Jamal was at his best, He constantly would go to the basket, and 1. hit the floater, or draw the foul. For some reason this year he's possesed with shooting the 3??? Even when the coaching staff is sitting him down because of the outragous shots.......These 2 guys are suppose to be the future. No they want be. Not to say they want be good players, but they are not franchinse players.

We've got a ways to go........still.
 

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Some of it comes down to when you get big, which is sort off related to being the youngest child. If you're always big for your age and your parents constantly tell you to be carefull with the kids your age then this is going to have an effect.

Being big for your age is counteracted somewhat if you're the youngest. I think there's a lot of examples of great players growing heaps late (in college).

This either means you've had to battle hard to be a forward or centre because you were undersized and then when you become as big or bigger than everyone else you didn't lose that will to battle or you get guys like Pippen who are exceptionally well rounded cause they start playing point and ended up playing a forward position.

My opinion on Eddy is either he doesn't know the meaning of hard work and someone should seriously take him and introduce him to a parent that works two jobs to get their kids through school or someone needs to find his button and push it.

This could be drumming into to him that he is the protector of his team, really lay the responsiblity down on him and challenge him.
Everyone has a button that will motivate them.
 

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OK on the concept of competitive fire itself. . .

In all honesty, competitive fire nowadays is something hyped to extremes. It's searched for in every single player, and the media will amplify a player's qualities to make it seem like they do, but the truth is that this abstract quality isn't really needed to win a championship let alone get us into the playoffs. Neither Shaq nor Tim Duncan strike me as fiery as Kirk Hinrich, but they just played really well.

However, Eddy lacks so much of this abstract quality its astounding. We need not only a fire, but a conflagration under his arse. He's being pushed around, he's backed down from Shaq. From Chibulls to darlets, you've all made great points about how he's been sort of raised into it, so yeah no use in repeating what I agree with. And he also still has to learn how to play basketball.
 

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As I recall Larry Legend never even touched a basketball until he was 14...
 

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the premise of the thread is off

being competitive or a competitor is not an ability its a personality trait that help whatever ability you have , like being quick on your feet

if curry's not that way its not because some soccer mom didn't yell at him enough to be aggresive , its because thats how he is and how he wants to be.

personally i think ccurry is comeptive enough , his drive and pyhsicality need work though and that would clear lot of his so called "competiveness " question very quickly
 

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Discussion Starter · #19 ·
the premise of the thread is off

being competitive or a competitor is not an ability its a personality trait that help whatever ability you have , like being quick on your feet

if curry's not that way its not because some soccer mom didn't yell at him enough to be aggresive , its because thats how he is and how he wants to be.

personally i think ccurry is comeptive enough , his drive and pyhsicality need work though and that would clear lot of his so called "competiveness " question very quickly
I'm not sure I follow your point exactly. You seem to be saying that competitiveness is a personality trait (which I agree with) but you don't think that it has anything to do with how he was brought up? (or as you put it, "because some soccer mom didn't yell at him enough to be aggresive")

I'm pretty sure that personality traits are detremined by both Nature and Nurture. If you have enough adults yelling at you to be aggressive at an early age, you WILL be much more aggressive as you get older. Our personalities are all products of the examples our parents set, as well as other outside influences, but mostly our parents.

Also, out of curiosity how are you distinguishing between "competitiveness" and "drive"? Not sure I see how Eddy can be competitive but not have drive. I tend to think the two are pretty closely intertwined. Drive, to me, just implies sustained competitiveness (i.e. working hard over the long term). But I also don't think you can be "competitive" without being able to sustain that very characteristic. That is to say, competitiveness is not an act but rather a habit. So drive and competitiveness imply one another, at least by my definition.
 

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Originally posted by <b>ChiBullsFan</b>!


I'm pretty sure that personality traits are detremined by both Nature and Nurture. If you have enough adults yelling at you to be aggressive at an early age, you WILL be much more aggressive as you get older. Our personalities are all products of the examples our parents set, as well as other outside influences, but mostly our parents.
it also depends on the person in question

one person may take the yelling as a motavation to be more aggressive , another it might make more timid or simply take their desire for whatever it is they are doing away.

we learn in different ways and it takes different things to get the best out of us , sometimes its internal and sometimes its not.

Curry obviously has enough in him for people to think he is worth all the trouble because despite what people think there are players with his gifts out there who become nothing such as a priest lauderdale

i distinguish drive as what you have internally to make you go, the reason can be emotional but it doesn't have to be

competiveness is somewhat as an emotion to me ,close to drive but not exactly the same thing

and to the point of this curry needs get something in him that makes him work when he isn't playing the game, when curry is playing i feel his desire is strong enough, but his preparation isn't where it needs to be so it limits him
 
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