Professional and College Basketball Forums banner
1 - 20 of 33 Posts

·
Registered
Joined
·
7,207 Posts
Discussion Starter · #1 ·
Over the last decade, the Western Conference has been filled with a lot of good power forwards and centers. So much so that if you didn't have one, you probably were at a disadvantage when playing conference foes. Things are changing in the conference. Gone are Shaq, Jermaine Oneal, Rasheed Wallace. Possibly also gone soon might be KG. Remaining are Tim Duncan (Who is starting to show his age IMO) and Dirk Nowitzki, and Amare Stoudemire. So now if you have a big man with a good inside game, on most nights you have an advantage once again. Now that being said, and with Zbo continuing his metamorphasis into Antoine Walker, I think its time the Blazers draft big. I don't really care if it is Lemarcus Aldridge or Tyrus Thomas, or another good power forward who has been flying under the radar, but the team has to get tougher inside IMO before things start to get better. A lot of the Blazer problems are because of a lack of toughness on the inside, constantly being out rebounded when they don't shoot a good percentage to start with, and with certain players on the front line not playing defense, or not running the floor, it gives a squad little chance to win.

Not that I don't like the "scorers" who are in the draft like Morrison and such, but I don't think the team will improve as much by getting a guy who just puts it in the hoop. If we really want them, I think with the amount of draft picks the Blazers have they can trade up for a Rudy Gay, Morrison, Roy, etc. but they will not go as far for "fixing" the Blazers problems. :clown:
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
2,938 Posts
hasoos said:
........and with Zbo continuing his metamorphasis into Antoine Walker.......
Funny! Really funny. :rofl:


hasoos said:
A lot of the Blazer problems are because of a lack of toughness on the inside, constantly being out rebounded when they don't shoot a good percentage to start with, and with certain players on the front line not playing defense, or not running the floor, it gives a squad little chance to win.......
Hasoos, you are right about our front line players. Other than Joel, everyone else has regressed into softies. Zach biggest weakness is his height when playing against 7-fters. Add to this, Zach is becoming more and more UNLIKE the player he was 2 seasons ago, and inside banger, with touch and the ability to post up down low and finish. See analogy above!!
 

·
Banned member
Joined
·
28,451 Posts
hasoos said:
Over the last decade, the Western Conference has been filled with a lot of good power forwards and centers. So much so that if you didn't have one, you probably were at a disadvantage when playing conference foes. Things are changing in the conference. Gone are Shaq, Jermaine Oneal, Rasheed Wallace. Possibly also gone soon might be KG. Remaining are Tim Duncan (Who is starting to show his age IMO) and Dirk Nowitzki, and Amare Stoudemire. So now if you have a big man with a good inside game, on most nights you have an advantage once again. Now that being said, and with Zbo continuing his metamorphasis into Antoine Walker, I think its time the Blazers draft big. I don't really care if it is Lemarcus Aldridge or Tyrus Thomas, or another good power forward who has been flying under the radar, but the team has to get tougher inside IMO before things start to get better. A lot of the Blazer problems are because of a lack of toughness on the inside, constantly being out rebounded when they don't shoot a good percentage to start with, and with certain players on the front line not playing defense, or not running the floor, it gives a squad little chance to win.
The Blazers need to draft someone that A: they think will be best for the team and B: someone who's most capabable of taking over games.

I'm not sure if a big man, which will just sit behind Zach in all reality, is that guy.

who are the players who are the "best" in the league? More of them aren't big men.

Redd, Kobe, McGrady, Ray Allen, LeBron, Wade, Anthony, Jefferson, Carter, Pierce, Arenas, Marion (he might play PF, but he's a 6'7" SF playing PF) Hughes..

11 of the top 14 leading scorers are SF's or SG's (or Allen Iverson). It's not the big men that hit clutch shots either.

It's far more difficult for a big man to create shots for himself, or others. Tim Duncan is no longer the main reason why the Spurs are as good as they are. It's now their guards. Dirk is really a SF with a C's height (same with KG really).

I'm not sure if this is as much a big mans game as people think. It surely helps to have a good big man (and Zach, despite what people think, can be a good enough big man) but it really helps to have a SF who can shoot decent from outside and doesn't play like Darius.

Not that I don't like the "scorers" who are in the draft like Morrison and such, but I don't think the team will improve as much by getting a guy who just puts it in the hoop. If we really want them, I think with the amount of draft picks the Blazers have they can trade up for a Rudy Gay, Morrison, Roy, etc. but they will not go as far for "fixing" the Blazers problems. :clown:
how will Aldridge, Noah, Thomas or what other "big man" there is, "fix" the problem?

the team can't score, and has no one who can look at the other guys and tell them he's putting the team on his back. Thats not often a PF, and only occasionally is that a C (and none since Shaq came out really). I'm not saying who is there at SF (Gay and Morrison, maybe Roy) is automatically that guy, but they're closer to that guy than the "big men" are.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
2,938 Posts
SMiLE said:
......The team can't score, and has no one who can look at the other guys and tell them he's putting the team on his back. Thats not often a PF, and only occasionally is that a C (and none since Shaq came out really). I'm not saying who is there at SF (Gay and Morrison, maybe Roy) is automatically that guy, but they're closer to that guy than the "big men" are.
But when drafting this high - can we afford long term to pass on Taller players. The only "short" player I'd approve us drafting is Morrison. Otherwise, we need bigs.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
116 Posts
Yeah, I hear your arguement about bigs and stuff, but at this point, the Blazers should draft GOOD. The team lacks all-star talent at every position (although I can see many of the players being that good, none of them are right now).

Does this draft have any potential all-stars, any franchise guys? If not (to be determined), and management and McMill all have a really, really good feeling about our stockpile of little guards, and how they'll come along, then yes, draft big.

But either way, we're probably kinda screwed. The teams not going to get that much better unless a trade is made, too.
:mrt: I'm the fool.
 

·
Banned member
Joined
·
28,451 Posts
RedHot&Rolling said:
But when drafting this high - can we afford long term to pass on Taller players. The only "short" player I'd approve us drafting is Morrison. Otherwise, we need bigs.
ah, but can we "afford" long term to pass up on a player who might be better because we "need bigs"?

What if they think that Morrison is the best player (or Gay)? do we pass on him because we "need bigs"?


What if the bigs that are there, are just fools gold bigs, that we fans are over-emphasizing their benefits because of 2-4 games in the tournament.

Need proof that the tournament is being over emphasized by fans? Look at LaMarcus Aldridge. 2 weeks ago, he was the "stud". After a few bad games, he's dropping in peoples eyes.

Way too much emphasis is being put on the games in the tournament. If these guys were as good as their tourny #'s are, why the hell weren't they doing it all season?
 

·
Banned member
Joined
·
28,451 Posts
ColoradoBlazerFan said:
I'm with Nate when it comes to the draft. Trade the pick for a vet and/or to help dump some of our loser players. I know it kinda kills the fun of "who should we draft" but Nate is right. The last thing this team needs is more youth.

Peace
I'm not sure thats exactly what nate is saying. he's saying the team doesn't need someone who won't play/isn't ready to play/can't play.

plus, it's not as likely the team will be able to trade for someone who's anything more than a vet role player at this point.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
7,207 Posts
Discussion Starter · #10 ·
SMiLE said:
The Blazers need to draft someone that A: they think will be best for the team and B: someone who's most capabable of taking over games.

I'm not sure if a big man, which will just sit behind Zach in all reality, is that guy.

who are the players who are the "best" in the league? More of them aren't big men.

Redd, Kobe, McGrady, Ray Allen, LeBron, Wade, Anthony, Jefferson, Carter, Pierce, Arenas, Marion (he might play PF, but he's a 6'7" SF playing PF) Hughes..

11 of the top 14 leading scorers are SF's or SG's (or Allen Iverson). It's not the big men that hit clutch shots either.

It's far more difficult for a big man to create shots for himself, or others. Tim Duncan is no longer the main reason why the Spurs are as good as they are. It's now their guards. Dirk is really a SF with a C's height (same with KG really).

I'm not sure if this is as much a big mans game as people think. It surely helps to have a good big man (and Zach, despite what people think, can be a good enough big man) but it really helps to have a SF who can shoot decent from outside and doesn't play like Darius.



how will Aldridge, Noah, Thomas or what other "big man" there is, "fix" the problem?

the team can't score, and has no one who can look at the other guys and tell them he's putting the team on his back. Thats not often a PF, and only occasionally is that a C (and none since Shaq came out really). I'm not saying who is there at SF (Gay and Morrison, maybe Roy) is automatically that guy, but they're closer to that guy than the "big men" are.

If you look at the Blazers statistics, you will notice a few blatant statistics that will jump out at you. The first is that the Blazers are 2nd to last in the league in rebounding. This is primarily, as noted up above by others, that Joel is the only one on the team that hits the boards on a regular basis besides Brian Skinner who gets very little time. You may or may not realize it, but rebounds are often actually key to the game. Every rebound Portland gets, means one more posession to score on and one less for the opponent to score on, so it is truly a very possible game changing event. Secondly, it also means that if players are not hustling and working hard for rebounds, they are not doing the same thing for loose balls. If the team gets 10 more rebounds a game, and even shoots 40%, that is a solid 8 points per game and an assumed 10 less for the opponent. At that point, Portland becomes a competitive team in this league.

The Blazers currently are 12th in the league in turnovers. That means the guards are actually doing an above average job of taking care of the ball. Joel and Theo block a lot of shots, so they are good challenging in category as well. Shooting percentage is fairly decent, 44% isn't too bad overall. The problem is if you look at the assist. Portland has less shots come off assist then any other team. That means that guys aren't being set up for plays, they are playing a lot of one on one. What does that mean? Portland needs more players who are unselfish and move the ball for the sake of moving it. So that is the other thing I would look for in a player the Blazers are drafting. So overall, needs seem simple to me. We need a player with attacking size. We also need players who have the basketball IQ needed to move the ball and create more for others. Not guys who are going to stand around the outside and brick outside shots all day when players are open.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
227 Posts
Back in the Dudley years, the Blazers were at the top of league in rebounding. Couldn't shoot well, but we got a lot of our misses and missed again. Sabonis and Wallace fixed some of that.

I see three plans and they can overlap:

1. The dominant center plan. Kareem, David Robinson, Shaq and Duncan. Happens every once in a while. It's all about luck in the draft or fill in your favorite NBA conspiracy theory.

2. The "very good players" or balanced plan. We need high BBIQ players (not necessarily superstars) who can run, shoot, rebound, pass, and play defense. Kinda what you would expect from professionals. Detroit is the best example of this. A few one-dimensional players like a Theo or Ben Wallace can be on these teams, but that is it.

3. The non-center superstar plan. These are the 1st and 2nd round playoff teams that can never quite make it all the way. See Lebron James, Kobe Bryant, Kevin Garnett, Allen Iverson, Paul Pierce, Steve Nash. These teams are always trying to find that additional piece to put them over the top, but they draft too late, usually, to do that. They are mired in mediocrity.

Where do the players in this draft fit into this scheme? I don't see any superstars or dominant centers. Which players are really good all round?
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
4,138 Posts
I agree that we need quality bigs, but we should only draft big if it's best available talent.


Otherwise you end up drafting...

Milicic over Wade (2003)
Diop over Richard Jefferson (2001)
Frederic Weis over Ron Artest (1999)
LaFrentz over Vince Carter (1998)
Tony Battie over TMac (1997)
Samaki Walker over Kobe Bryant and Steve Nash (1996)
.
.
.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
7,207 Posts
Discussion Starter · #13 ·
Blazer Ringbearer said:
I agree that we need quality bigs, but we should only draft big if it's best available talent.


Otherwise you end up drafting...

Milicic over Wade (2003)
Diop over Richard Jefferson (2001)
Frederic Weis over Ron Artest (1999)
LaFrentz over Vince Carter (1998)
Tony Battie over TMac (1997)
Samaki Walker over Kobe Bryant and Steve Nash (1996)
.
.
.
Interesting you brought that up...notice how a lot of the players who were drafted in the wrong spot are foreigners and or high schoolers? It kind of gives you an indication on what areas of prep basketball are scouted better then others. Also of note, look at some of the years players being drafted. Its also a sign of the willingness to take risk in order to win that NBA teams take. Just like when Dirk Nowitzki entered the draft, or Kobe, for years afterwards teams were taking euros and high schoolers much higher then they should have, looking for the next Dirk or Kobe. What it all really amounts to is, as normal, did teams do their scouting, or did they just ride the hype?
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
3,957 Posts
SMiLE said:
I'm not sure thats exactly what nate is saying. he's saying the team doesn't need someone who won't play/isn't ready to play/can't play.

plus, it's not as likely the team will be able to trade for someone who's anything more than a vet role player at this point.
If anything we need this pick.We really need to trade zach.Zach,Dixon to Chitown for this years pic and Ben gordan.They need a pf or c and they could use tyson chandler full time at center and zach at pf might be what they need to get over the hump.Z-bo,Miles,Theo,Dixon.All need a ticket out of here.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
5,891 Posts
well lets see if we have a team to root for next season let alone who we pick.
 

·
Top Of The Pops
Joined
·
27,460 Posts
Utherhimo said:
well lets see if we have a team to root for next season let alone who we pick.
Got something on your mind, there, friend?
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
5,891 Posts
just a bad feeling the blazers might dead and gone soon
 

·
Banned member
Joined
·
28,451 Posts
Utherhimo said:
just a bad feeling the blazers might dead and gone soon
the worst that'll happen is he'll sell. The NBA can't afford to a team fold, especially when you have at least 2 of the teams on the west coast, threatening to move.

Maybe Paul should just build a new stadium, and eat it for a while. ;)
 
1 - 20 of 33 Posts
This is an older thread, you may not receive a response, and could be reviving an old thread. Please consider creating a new thread.
Top