Wilcox Still Struggling to Make a Difference
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i really love his play and the excitement he brings to the crowd...but i mean
if teams want him i think we should get something we can really use... for him....
if teams want him i think we should get something we can really use... for him....
Well, we do have Kaman for another year than wilcox, and we could lose wilcox this year. So its a matter of who the clippers want to commit to long term. If wilcox is playing 3 minutes a game, and Kaman 30 minutes a game, its pretty obvious they plan (as of now) on comitting to Kaman, thus making Wilcox expendable.
That could all change of course, like if Kaman gets injured, and then Wilcox steps up and plays up to his potential, the Clippers could change their mind. But right now, it looks like, unless Wilcox gets absolutely crap offers next year, he wont be a Clipper. (of course unless he pulls a radmanaovich and signs for the qualifying offer so as to strike it rich in free agency the next year unrestricted). But really i do see him getting big offers that are overpaying. Look at what chandler, Jerome James, Dalembert, Pacculia, Foyle, etc. are making lately. Some are better than wilcox, some not as good, but if those guys can make the money that they are getting, its logical to think that SOMEONE will offer him a 5 year 30-40 million dollar contract that the CLippers of course would not match.
The problem is, do you want to use him up this year with the super injury prone Rebraca as your only other solid big right now? In the past, this is what the clippers probably would have done as they rarely (actually have they ever?) done a mid season trade. Or they could try to pull a Jaric, and try to sign and trade him at the end of the year. Or, if they know he will only be playing 5 minutes a game the rest of the year, thus pulling his stock down, they just might trade him at the deadline.
That could all change of course, like if Kaman gets injured, and then Wilcox steps up and plays up to his potential, the Clippers could change their mind. But right now, it looks like, unless Wilcox gets absolutely crap offers next year, he wont be a Clipper. (of course unless he pulls a radmanaovich and signs for the qualifying offer so as to strike it rich in free agency the next year unrestricted). But really i do see him getting big offers that are overpaying. Look at what chandler, Jerome James, Dalembert, Pacculia, Foyle, etc. are making lately. Some are better than wilcox, some not as good, but if those guys can make the money that they are getting, its logical to think that SOMEONE will offer him a 5 year 30-40 million dollar contract that the CLippers of course would not match.
The problem is, do you want to use him up this year with the super injury prone Rebraca as your only other solid big right now? In the past, this is what the clippers probably would have done as they rarely (actually have they ever?) done a mid season trade. Or they could try to pull a Jaric, and try to sign and trade him at the end of the year. Or, if they know he will only be playing 5 minutes a game the rest of the year, thus pulling his stock down, they just might trade him at the deadline.
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man Big Z is so great in the post...and near the hop and he doesnt seem to turn it over
as often as Kaman, Z even has defensive skills....but yea injuries....
good thing they committed to Z already
as often as Kaman, Z even has defensive skills....but yea injuries....
good thing they committed to Z already
Ehh, I'm trying to find a point in there that actually made some kind of sense, but I'm not having any luck.yamaneko said:
Just because Kaman is getting the minutes, doesn't make Wilcox expendable. Too many people here are misusing the word expendable. If you had Kaman and another big or 2 in addition to Brand who were just outplaying and/or better than Wilcox, then he's expendable. Let's not get it twisted, he's a talent that in the right system and given minutes would produce. Giving him 5-10 minutes and saying well he's not putting up numbers is stupid on our part, this guy has shown us on many occasions when given 30 minutes, he can put up some nice numbers. As it is right now Brand is having an all-star, maybe even an MVP caliber season, and he's our #1 big. From there it's whatever. I don't think you can make an argument that even Kaman is head and shoulders above Wilcox, and you did state that Rebraca is injury prone and not reliable to give us the games and minutes (plus production) that we need that would add some validity to your expendable point.
Him pulling a Radmanovic? It wouldn't make any sense for him to do that and here's why. Radmanovic had a decent season last year and he came into this season thinking he'd have a bigger role + more minutes. That means maybe he can have a breakout year, then next year get a large contract, which IMO he deserves, he's shown he can do a lot more than what Seattle relegates him to. If Wilcox in a contract year is getting 12.4 mpg (this season), why is he going to take the QFO, to come back and play the same possibly even less minutes next year if the organization is that committed to Kaman? Wilcox is still somewhat of a mystery, he's kind of like Stromile in that Stro put up some pretty good numbers in limited minutes, the difference between the 2 IMO, is that Wilcox has consistently shown he can put up good numbers when given big minutes, something that Stro didn't necessarily prove as much. Based off his history and skills, many teams will look at Wilcox this coming offseason, and feel pretty good about their chances of snatching him up, which leads into my next point.
As far as playing him a few minutes to make his stock go down, you do that if you're thinking maybe we can get him to resign for cheap, not let's not play him and then try trade him. That is how a GM like John Paxson thinks, and that's *** backward, 100% completely stupid thinking. If the Clips were thinking that, they would be showcasing him right now, letting him play and put up numbers so someone sweetens the pot for him NOW, not even necessarily at the deadline. I mean let's get serious, the guy is RFA at the end of the year, and who's going to give a lot (at deadline) for a guy you could potentially LOSE at the end of the season, even though you have bird rights and the ability to match a contract offer. On the flip side of that, you can let him play out this year and then try to sign him as a RFA in the offseason, knowing the Clips are not going to match and have him be an expensive backup.
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Im tired of Wilcox. He has so much talent but no heart. If we arent going to play him then we need to trade him and let Singleton play more. At least Singleton hustles even when he is not scoring. Wilcox has had enough chances and its time to trade him
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I wish I had Wilcox's body, I would so own!DaFranchise said:
Um, i'm pretty positive the starters can easily play 30 minutes a game for the whole season... 30 minutes is pretty average, even a bit low for lots of starting players. Theres a good chance Wilcox could get buried in the line up again this year if he doesn't pick up his game.Botchla said:
Honestly, I don't know why put the blame on Wilcox.
It's easy to tell who has actually played sports and who hasn't. It's very hard to get in the game 5-10 minutes and really make a difference, you're just a different player. When you know you're gona be out there for 30 minutes, you just play your game and let the game take it's course, but when you come off the bench and your minutes are limited, you put pressure on yourself to do something just so you get more minutes, it's a lot more difficult to play the game that way.
Also, somehow it's very easy for some of you to ignore/forget that this team has the best start in franchise history. Dunleavy, for now, has found a formula (rotation) that is working and is winning him ballgames, there's no need to change that right now, it's not broke, don't fix it. There's going to be a time at some point this season where we will need Wilcox to play 30 minutes, and for Singleton to provide something in limited action, it's just right now, that's not the case.
It's easy to tell who has actually played sports and who hasn't. It's very hard to get in the game 5-10 minutes and really make a difference, you're just a different player. When you know you're gona be out there for 30 minutes, you just play your game and let the game take it's course, but when you come off the bench and your minutes are limited, you put pressure on yourself to do something just so you get more minutes, it's a lot more difficult to play the game that way.
Also, somehow it's very easy for some of you to ignore/forget that this team has the best start in franchise history. Dunleavy, for now, has found a formula (rotation) that is working and is winning him ballgames, there's no need to change that right now, it's not broke, don't fix it. There's going to be a time at some point this season where we will need Wilcox to play 30 minutes, and for Singleton to provide something in limited action, it's just right now, that's not the case.
Seriously Arenas it seems like very few people really know how hard it is to get in the flow of a game when you only get 5-10min and you don't even know when that comes. To get into a rythm you need to get consistent minutes and that not happening right now.
Rebounding effort does not come with minutes. If youre in 30 seconds, and you have a shot at a rebound, your effort will be made manifest immediately. THings that take minutes is perhaps getting into the offense, your shot, etc. However, the things that dunleavvy has been harping on are defense, and rebounding it seems...things that if someone is in a couple of minutes you can already judge regardless of playing time.
I dont think dunleavvy has said anything negative about wilcox's offense, for the reason you mentioned. That is something that you cant really judge when youre in the game for 5 or 10 minutes.
I still maintain the key is that the Clippers are only going to give a long term deal to one of the guys, being kaman, or wilcox. The fact that Kaman obviously is dunleavvys favorite, shows that its unlikely they have wilcox in mind at this time for such a long term deal. So the clippers have choices. Do they keep him as an injury insurance the whole year, then let him go for nothing at the end of the year? Do they trade him at the deadline so they can get something in exchange? Is it a big loss even if we dont get a big in return? No. Singleton can play (perhaps even better than wilcox for rebounding/defense), a decent 5-10 minutes a game at the PF slot. Rebraca could play a little more minutes at Center. Theyve got Ndong as well.
But as i mentioned, if the clippers do trade him midseason this will be the first midseason trade i can ever remember them doing, so its not like im saying that they WILL trade him based on a long history of such moves. Im just saying, that it would be LOGICAL to trade him, IF they plan on letting him go at the end of the year.
I dont think dunleavvy has said anything negative about wilcox's offense, for the reason you mentioned. That is something that you cant really judge when youre in the game for 5 or 10 minutes.
I still maintain the key is that the Clippers are only going to give a long term deal to one of the guys, being kaman, or wilcox. The fact that Kaman obviously is dunleavvys favorite, shows that its unlikely they have wilcox in mind at this time for such a long term deal. So the clippers have choices. Do they keep him as an injury insurance the whole year, then let him go for nothing at the end of the year? Do they trade him at the deadline so they can get something in exchange? Is it a big loss even if we dont get a big in return? No. Singleton can play (perhaps even better than wilcox for rebounding/defense), a decent 5-10 minutes a game at the PF slot. Rebraca could play a little more minutes at Center. Theyve got Ndong as well.
But as i mentioned, if the clippers do trade him midseason this will be the first midseason trade i can ever remember them doing, so its not like im saying that they WILL trade him based on a long history of such moves. Im just saying, that it would be LOGICAL to trade him, IF they plan on letting him go at the end of the year.
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Josh Childress anyone?
Yamaneko.. you must be from o'side.
smart guy.
any Clipper fan must know..
ARoeser and EBaylor .. MDunleavy included.. won't and haven't made any trades during the season for the last... what.. 20 years?.. sure this is a special year.. but i doubt they will change their pattern.
Wilcox MUST play D and Board. That's what the coaches are looking for and are expecting. Everyone knows Wilcox has that monster flush where the ball barely touches the net... but he must exhibit more discipline and determination on the defensive end (boxing out is something Cox doesn't do at all).
A tremendous athlete and incredible physical specimen.. Wilcox has gotten away from having to learn to boxout with his body and board with determination. At Maryland and in HS.. raw talent and quicks gets you boards and blocks and shots and defense with little effort. In the NBA.. you must know how to play .
Cox is a favorite of the fans because he has flash and flair.
Rebraca should be a favorite because he is a blue collar worker that brings it every game. He Defends, he Boards, he boxes out, he makes and takes good shots...and if he makes fouls, he makes sure the opponent feels it. Z should be cheered by the fans.. but in LA.. it's all flash and glitz so that's why you will always hear cheers for Cox.
Chris Wilcox better learn to play tough D and know his defensive rotation responsibilities, get boards, block shots and score when he is open. The minutes will come. Dunleavy already told Wilcox that he needs a breakout season like Amare did last year so the Clips will go deep into the playoffs.
smart guy.
any Clipper fan must know..
ARoeser and EBaylor .. MDunleavy included.. won't and haven't made any trades during the season for the last... what.. 20 years?.. sure this is a special year.. but i doubt they will change their pattern.
Wilcox MUST play D and Board. That's what the coaches are looking for and are expecting. Everyone knows Wilcox has that monster flush where the ball barely touches the net... but he must exhibit more discipline and determination on the defensive end (boxing out is something Cox doesn't do at all).
A tremendous athlete and incredible physical specimen.. Wilcox has gotten away from having to learn to boxout with his body and board with determination. At Maryland and in HS.. raw talent and quicks gets you boards and blocks and shots and defense with little effort. In the NBA.. you must know how to play .
Cox is a favorite of the fans because he has flash and flair.
Rebraca should be a favorite because he is a blue collar worker that brings it every game. He Defends, he Boards, he boxes out, he makes and takes good shots...and if he makes fouls, he makes sure the opponent feels it. Z should be cheered by the fans.. but in LA.. it's all flash and glitz so that's why you will always hear cheers for Cox.
Chris Wilcox better learn to play tough D and know his defensive rotation responsibilities, get boards, block shots and score when he is open. The minutes will come. Dunleavy already told Wilcox that he needs a breakout season like Amare did last year so the Clips will go deep into the playoffs.
Yes, used to live in oside, now in the city of angels.
I like wilcox. But with dunleavvy starting kaman and brand, theres not much room nor reason to sign him to a long term deal. And he probably wont get much playing time ever barring injury. But we are in a unique position. If we were to trade him, I personally would trade him for only draft picks, and MAYBE a filler big guy. Why? Well, we are pretty set at PG with Cassell, Livingston, Ewing, and the vet of the week. At the wings, we have maggette, mobley, ross, mccarty, korolev, and the aforementioned players who all can play SG, as well. In the front court, as i mentinoed singleton can definately equal wilcox's output at PF that he has been doing this year, so its not like we have a drop off there. So if we trade for a front court player, theres almost no point to that. So lets just stockpile some picks..the draft two years from now should be good with a lot of the super high school guys who will have been freshman in college coming out.
I like wilcox. But with dunleavvy starting kaman and brand, theres not much room nor reason to sign him to a long term deal. And he probably wont get much playing time ever barring injury. But we are in a unique position. If we were to trade him, I personally would trade him for only draft picks, and MAYBE a filler big guy. Why? Well, we are pretty set at PG with Cassell, Livingston, Ewing, and the vet of the week. At the wings, we have maggette, mobley, ross, mccarty, korolev, and the aforementioned players who all can play SG, as well. In the front court, as i mentinoed singleton can definately equal wilcox's output at PF that he has been doing this year, so its not like we have a drop off there. So if we trade for a front court player, theres almost no point to that. So lets just stockpile some picks..the draft two years from now should be good with a lot of the super high school guys who will have been freshman in college coming out.
I would say trade him to either...
Pacers for Jeff Foster... he's a good big man who can produce when he's not the focal point. We'd probably be the ones tossing in a pick here.
Lakers for Andrew Bynum... the lakers need a big man like friggin' yesterday. Wilcox is ready to play big minutes right now, Bynum can sit on the sidelines and develop until either Kaman is gone (or gets better) and Rebraca retires in a couple years probably. We might even be able to squeeze a 2nd rounder out of the Lakers too.
Nuggets for Nene Hilario... i don't even know if it's possible considering they'll both be restricted free agents next year. But Nene is gone for the season and the Nuggets could use the help up front, they might be willing to part with his rights for next year (if the CBA even allows this, i do not know).
But unless we got a quality return, i'd say just let Wilcox play out his contract and go after BEN WALLACE in free agency in the summer. If Wilcox got lowballed, we could probably keep him, but i'd rather throw that money towards big ben. That'd be so friggin' awesome, we'd easily be a title contender.
Pacers for Jeff Foster... he's a good big man who can produce when he's not the focal point. We'd probably be the ones tossing in a pick here.
Lakers for Andrew Bynum... the lakers need a big man like friggin' yesterday. Wilcox is ready to play big minutes right now, Bynum can sit on the sidelines and develop until either Kaman is gone (or gets better) and Rebraca retires in a couple years probably. We might even be able to squeeze a 2nd rounder out of the Lakers too.
Nuggets for Nene Hilario... i don't even know if it's possible considering they'll both be restricted free agents next year. But Nene is gone for the season and the Nuggets could use the help up front, they might be willing to part with his rights for next year (if the CBA even allows this, i do not know).
But unless we got a quality return, i'd say just let Wilcox play out his contract and go after BEN WALLACE in free agency in the summer. If Wilcox got lowballed, we could probably keep him, but i'd rather throw that money towards big ben. That'd be so friggin' awesome, we'd easily be a title contender.
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Wilcox brings strength and size. He is extremely athletic and has a good shot when he gets regular looks. He makes too many mistakes and bad decisions is what hurts him the most. This could be blamed on getting 5-15 minutes and not really getting in the flow. Chris has some trouble with his confidence - that comes with getting regular minutes. He is still young, and shows it from time to time. Maybe laying off the ganja during the season a little more might help? :raised_ey
I like his game, he brings offensive punch to a good team. Dunleavy wants him to play regular defense. Crash on the boards, and be more of an energy guy. Chris is getting better, but he falls back into standing up straight and being slow footed. That's why Kaman plays - watch the difference in footwork. Chris will start to produce more and more if he stays focused. I think that won't be a problem if the clips keep winning. :cheers:
I like his game, he brings offensive punch to a good team. Dunleavy wants him to play regular defense. Crash on the boards, and be more of an energy guy. Chris is getting better, but he falls back into standing up straight and being slow footed. That's why Kaman plays - watch the difference in footwork. Chris will start to produce more and more if he stays focused. I think that won't be a problem if the clips keep winning. :cheers:
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