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Discussion Starter #1
The thing about long term rebuilding plans ..... more often that not, most if not all the key components get tired of losing and bail out on the plan before it begins to bear fruit.

Take the 1997-98 Raptors. At the time, Isiah had assembled a young core of talent including Damon Stoudamire, Marcus Camby, Doug Christie and Tracy McGrady. The following summer, Vince Carter was on the way via the draft. His plan at the time was not unlike Babcock's now (assemble some blue chip potential, keep your draft picks, etc... and hope to sign some free agents down the road when you are on the cusp on contention).

The 1997-98 Raps stumbled out of the gate and endured a 17 game losing streak. It was a cold winter, the arena was lousy (the SkyDome), the coach was likely insane (Darell Walker), and the players collectively lost their minds by February.

Damon demanded a trade and got one (his career has been in a downward spiral since).
Walker quit (and how often does a coach quit a team? absolute career death sentence for him). Doug Christie demanded a trade, retracted, poisoned his relationship with the organization, and the next year paved his way out of town by wearing a ridiculous headband in the playoffs against New York. Camby didn't demand a trade, but was clearly unhappy, unmotivated and uninterested in improving his game (given his chronic injuries, his value as an NBA player dropped to near zero and the Raps gave up on him).

T-Mac holed up in his condo and slept 20 hours day - developed absolutely no attachment to the organization which led to his departure as soon as he had the chance. Although his game has elevated to superstardom, he's yet to play on a good team. If a good coach and a couple of respected veterans had taken him under their wing in 1997, maybe he would have adopted a team first attitude and stayed.

NBA players hate to lose - they aren't willing to wait 3 years to see improvement. Had Stoudamire, Christie, Camby, and McGrady stuck together, waited for Carter to arrive and McGrady to blossom, the Raps would have added some free agents (who would have killed to come to TO with that roster) and won the East 2-3 times. As it was, all bailed out and none played in the Finals except Camby with the Knicks.

The same thing is playing out now - Bosh is T-Mac, CV3 is Camby, (there is no Damon), Sam Mitchell is Walker (not insane, although I could see him get there with all the losing), the 2006 draft pick is Vince Carter, Babcock is Isiah (rep. for making bad trades), etc....
 

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The Truth IV said:
T-Mac holed up in his condo and slept 20 hours day - developed absolutely no attachment to the organization which led to his departure as soon as he had the chance. Although his game has elevated to superstardom, he's yet to play on a good team. If a good coach and a couple of respected veterans had taken him under their wing in 1997, maybe he would have adopted a team first attitude and stayed.


The same thing is playing out now - Bosh is T-Mac.
Bosh is hardly the attitude that T-Mac is, he cares about the city of TO
He does not stay cooped up 20hrs/day.
 

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speedythief said:
One difference, and it's massive, is the protection we now have thanks to the CBA.
Oh but they can still demand trades! You know how nobody likes playing in this ****ty city! The weather's too cold! They probably don't like us! Toronto is such a small market! Nobody wants to live here! They think we're all eskimos! Toronto's not exciting! The Raptors have gay colours! We spell colours with a u! We're sponsored by a Loblaws brand! Lamond Murray dissed us! We don't have enough fans! Our subways are too slow! We're a bunch of old white people who eat our own boogers and have no clue about urban lifestyle!!!!! OMGOMGOMGOMGOMGOMGOMGOMG!!!!!!!!!
 

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Budweiser_Boy said:
Oh but they can still demand trades! You know how nobody likes playing in this ****ty city! The weather's too cold! They probably don't like us! Toronto is such a small market! Nobody wants to live here! They think we're all eskimos! Toronto's not exciting! The Raptors have gay colours! We spell colours with a u! We're sponsored by a Loblaws brand! Lamond Murray dissed us! We don't have enough fans! Our subways are too slow! We're a bunch of old white people who eat our own boogers and have no clue about urban lifestyle!!!!! OMGOMGOMGOMGOMGOMGOMGOMG!!!!!!!!!
Can't forget that we teach the metric system. Stupid AD.
 

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it's a good analogy, but i dont kno, can we keep these guys around?
 

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Discussion Starter #8
NBA players are greatly motivated by a desire to win. I think it's because of the trash talking that goes on both on and off the court - nobody wants to get labeled as a loser. That's why I'm afraid the 05-06 Raps will bail out like their 97-98 counterparts.

The weather, the metric system, etc... wouldn't matter if the team was winning 50 games a year.

If you're a point guard, you want to play with all-star calibre scorers to pad your stats and get more coin. Similarly, if you're Chris Bosh, you may never get a max deal if you're constantly faced with double teams because your teammates can't play.

Sure, Bosh has a better attitude than McGrady did when he was here but the bottom line is that I'm afraid he'll leave if the team goes through an ugly season like the one in 97-98. Similarly, it's always a coincidence that guys like VC and Camby find themselves on the injured list when their teams are struggling but turn into iron-men when their teams are contenders.

Losing breeds more losing and here's hoping that the Raps can stem the tide before the cupboard is empty.
 

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duke of new york, a#1
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I don't think Raptors managment is paranoid of Bosh leaving.

For example, if we we're, we easily could've seen us draft Granger and Jack this past year (friends of his) to bribe him, in a way. We went in a totally different direction so there you go.
 

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Budweiser_Boy said:
Oh but they can still demand trades! You know how nobody likes playing in this ****ty city! The weather's too cold! They probably don't like us! Toronto is such a small market! Nobody wants to live here! They think we're all eskimos! Toronto's not exciting! The Raptors have gay colours! We spell colours with a u! We're sponsored by a Loblaws brand! Lamond Murray dissed us! We don't have enough fans! Our subways are too slow! We're a bunch of old white people who eat our own boogers and have no clue about urban lifestyle!!!!! OMGOMGOMGOMGOMGOMGOMGOMG!!!!!!!!!
what are you talking about? Toronto has everything an American city has, minus the unfriendlyness. Absolutely NO ONE has ill-spoken about the actual CITY of Toronto, but rather the terrible front office of the organization. (i think Antonio Davis didnt like our education system, other than that, thats about it)
 

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what are you talking about? Toronto has everything an American city has, minus the unfriendlyness. Absolutely NO ONE has ill-spoken about the actual CITY of Toronto, but rather the terrible front office of the organization. (i think Antonio Davis didnt like our education system, other than that, thats about it)
u may be being sarcastiic...i cant really tell...but Bud Boy was joking...
 

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restricted free agency?
 

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duke of new york, a#1
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For Slasher:

Restricted free agency didn't come into existence in the NBA until the CBA [Collective Bargaining Agreement] was established in 1998, and was renewed in 2005, which provides protection for teams from losing their picks for nothing.

Essentially it means we can match any offer they get from another team, and if they sign an offer sheet with someone, we can match it and keep the player. The loophole to restricted free agency is the player accepting the "qualifying offer" for his last contract year on the first-round rookie pick contract he signed. He would play for a small base salary and become an unrestricted free agent the following summer. Stromile Swift did that and went to the Rockets.

Hence, the problems we had such as McGrady walking off the team for nothing are minimized. We get an opportunity to first: resign and second: sign-and-trade.

Taking a qualifying offer is generally very risky because of the chance of injury/not having a good season. It could cost the player potentially tens of millions of dollars.

Restricted free agency also allows us to offer an extra year and more money overall to our own free agents. Nobody can give Bosh, for example, the size or length of contract we can, which is an incentive for him to stay.
 

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Well, as speedy just explained, we have protection due to the changes of the CBA.

And I don't think Bosh, most importantly is that type of person. He knows what we're trying to develop, and that we're trying to build around him.

Even if he decides to demand a trade, or sign with another team - we'll be able to get something for him.. unlike T-Mac.

As for the other guys, I'm sure they can endure two years of losing. Because by the time there even thinking of new contracts, I'm confident we'll be a team contending for the playoffs, and with plenty more too look forward too.
 
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