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Restore the Roar
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Discussion Starter #1
So, a random thought... would a second minor league, and a draft expansion to say... 12 rounds... help the NBA's quality of player? Obviously it wouldn't help expand the level of superstar caliber talent - but on the level of solid role players and even the occasional shocker All Star it could make a difference.

I'm not saying the NBA's quality of play now is low either, I'm merely wondering if it could be improved by a much larger pool of players for each team to develop? Say 2 teams per NBA team, 12 man rosters. Considering how few D-League players make a difference at the NBA level, could this make a difference?
 

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Oladipo for the people
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A legit minor league and not the shitty D-League would help.

Or the ability to draft players and have the option to leave them in college would be nice.

In the NHL like 5-10 draftees a year actually play the majority of the year with their team. The rest stay in the minors/overseas's etc.

Since the D league sucks, players should be able to stick with NCAA. Would benefit both leagues.
 

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No

If the NBA wants to improve the quality of its game they need to invest into a junior league(age 15-20) or two like hockey does so that they can get to the talent when its young so it can be molded for the NBA and get rid of the AAU influence.
 

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Having a tier below the D-league isn't going to do much, and the overseas leagues already act as additional minor leagues anyway. The only idea that would make a real difference is what K4L threw out there, letting high-schoolers play in junior leagues with teams run by NBA franchises, and even then I'm not sure that it's totally workable.
 

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More minor leagues won't help because there is no good mechanism for shuttling good young players up and old crappy players down. Guaranteed contracts are brutal for the fan.
 

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Snapping Necks and Cashing Checks
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I agree with the junior leagues concept. European soccer teams greatly improve the quality of the players they have by getting to them early.
 

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I think it starts even earlier than that, maybe not teams ran by the NBA but that the NBA should lobby, encourage and invest in children league. There should be better coaching and more awareness at the 5-7 year old age and get these kids into great HS programs.
 

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Have a GREAT day!
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I don't think America is sensible enough to have the junior minor league discussion.

I believe the D-League has grown up a lot since its first days. Let's not forget how new of a concept it is to NBA basketball.

I think you open the draft up to 3 rounds and guarantee D league spots for second rounders for a year or two. It will allow teams to take project players in the second round and a place to watch and evaluate them without the pressure of taking a roster spot from a more established player right away. It also protects second rounders and gives some guys who can easily slip through the crack a guaranteed chance. The third round of the NBA draft would completely suck.
 

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do better
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No

If the NBA wants to improve the quality of its game they need to invest into a junior league(age 15-20) or two like hockey does so that they can get to the talent when its young so it can be molded for the NBA and get rid of the AAU influence.
Pretty much. There are so many corrupted, limited players because the AAU circuit touts winning and looking good at all costs over development.

Stern will never do that, he used to spout "I don't want NBA scouts in high school arenas"...well that's naive because the league is still gonna be on these kids mind. They're coming regardless so might as well do your best to mold them in the interim.
 

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You would never be able to draft a kid and hold his rights while he stayed in college (like when you draft a Euro and he stays overseas for a few years) because of the financial issues. Stay in college and make zero income; the answer would be,"um, no thanks."

While I agree AAU is killing the fundamentals of basketball, especially in big men, the idea of a junior league wouldn't translate well, IMO. The biggest issue would be the NCAA. If you have the rights to a 13,14 or 15 year old, what happens at college? What happens with injuries? Basketball is much like football, in the sense that you can see a 13 year old and say, "wow, he looks great against other 13 years olds.." but then, that kid never pans out, or doesn't grow, etc. In soccer or hockey, or even to an extent baseball, scouting can be done at an early age, and while there are no guarantees, the success rate is much higher in those sports...

I think the D-League can be improved, but to add rounds to the draft, or expand the D-League is not the answer. The entire sport is already watered down enough... The only answer is to eliminate a few franchises. Once that is done, expanding the D_League can be considered.
 

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Restore the Roar
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Discussion Starter #13
So far - not many sensible responses, and yet at the same time: not many valid points against it. Most seem to say that it "waters down" things. Others saying that there is no viable system for "shuttling" players back and forth. Obviously - there isn't a second league yet or a laid down true minor league system. So that would have to be created along with the league. Here is where my thoughts were...

1. Look at the number of undrafted contributors in the NBA - every year there are stories about undrafted players making a difference somewhere.
2. Look at the number of D-League players that seem to excel, but never get called up. Play well, and wind up shuffling between D-League teams.

Now lets say we add a 12 round draft. Give every single NBA team two D-League teams, we'd have League1 and League2. Players drafted in round 1 are given guaranteed contracts, round 2 are guaranteed but shorter term, and after that nothing is a guarantee. Each team is required to fill out a full 24 minor league roster. A system is put in place allowing NBA players to be shuttled from the NBA down to the DL1 or DL2 leagues - whether as a result of performance or injury (although I do feel that unlike baseball - the NBA would be better served with injury recovery coming at the top level).

What does this do for us? Well it definitely does NOT "water down" the talent level. This would actually give us a greater talent pool. In order to be on a League1 or League2 team you need to be under contract with an NBA team. You're officially in that team's "system." What this does is it creates a situation that necessitates the NBA teams putting time into properly developing these players. Right now players are basically stuck down there in the D-League unless they're a Thabeet type - a high draft pick based on raw talent and expected to develop and join the league.

If teams are given a pair of squads, and the time to work with players and develop them - what we could see is a major INCREASE in the skill level we see from the middle of the roster on down.
 

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Top undrafted players get more money overseas then they do in the D-League and that will more then likely never change and even if it did it still would not improve the quality of the game because it does not improve the talent pool it just keeps them in America and would probably end up being a waste of money.
 

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Restore the Roar
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Discussion Starter #15
Top undrafted players get more money overseas then they do in the D-League and that will more then likely never change and even if it did it still would not improve the quality of the game because it does not improve the talent pool it just keeps them in America and would probably end up being a waste of money.
You're wrong. Just straight up wrong with regards to the comment that it "does not improve the talent pool." If players saw it as a legit route to the NBA - where the real money is - they would start taking advantage of it. Especially if they felt they had what it took to make it in the league. Having more players under contract with NBA teams in a minor league system would definitely increase the number of those guys that stick in the US and get shots in the NBA. There is no doubt in my mind that you'd see guys like David Lighty, Ben Hansbrough, guys that play hard nosed D and shoot the lights out would get their time in in the D-Leagues, under contract with a system in place for promotions-demotions, winding up playing significant roles in the NBA.

The sort of guys that you look at in the college game and say "no, their games wouldn't translate.." and ignore them as they go overseas, where they succeed... and you say "no, their games wouldn't translate.." - Teams would see them continue to succeed in League2, and then in League1... and then someone gets hurt and it is far more convenient to call up a player like that and give him a shot than it is to look overseas, say "Hey can you break that contract and come back home?" - a lot of guys with a lot of talent and legitimate ability to play in the league would get shots. The skill pool for the NBA, specifically, would definitely rise. No doubt about it.
 

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Restore the Roar
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Discussion Starter #16
... why am I arguing about developing talent with a Knicks fan? They haven't seen homegrown talent succeed in the big apple since, what... Pat Ewing? ;) (I kid because I love, I swear!)
 

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do better
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I don't feel that the investment into this would even really be worth it. If you can play you'll get it eventually, whatever league you're in most likely.

And "all the undrafted contributors"...it's really like 3 at the most a season.
 

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You're wrong. Just straight up wrong with regards to the comment that it "does not improve the talent pool." If players saw it as a legit route to the NBA - where the real money is - they would start taking advantage of it. Especially if they felt they had what it took to make it in the league. Having more players under contract with NBA teams in a minor league system would definitely increase the number of those guys that stick in the US and get shots in the NBA. There is no doubt in my mind that you'd see guys like David Lighty, Ben Hansbrough, guys that play hard nosed D and shoot the lights out would get their time in in the D-Leagues, under contract with a system in place for promotions-demotions, winding up playing significant roles in the NBA.

The sort of guys that you look at in the college game and say "no, their games wouldn't translate.." and ignore them as they go overseas, where they succeed... and you say "no, their games wouldn't translate.." - Teams would see them continue to succeed in League2, and then in League1... and then someone gets hurt and it is far more convenient to call up a player like that and give him a shot than it is to look overseas, say "Hey can you break that contract and come back home?" - a lot of guys with a lot of talent and legitimate ability to play in the league would get shots. The skill pool for the NBA, specifically, would definitely rise. No doubt about it.
That already happen except the players go overseas and get the most money possible and work on their game and when they are good enough to play in the NBA they get sign i.e. Gary Neal. The money why you see more "undrafted" players that go overseas that play in the NBA then D-Leaguer who can or choose not to go overseas.

Again this idea does nothing to the talent pool of the NBA, guys David Lighty and Ben Hansbrough might one day be good enough to play in the NBA but now is not the time so they go overseas and work on their game and tryout for NBA teams when they get the opportunity. Simply having them in America instead of overseas is not going to make the NBA better.

... why am I arguing about developing talent with a Knicks fan? They haven't seen homegrown talent succeed in the big apple since, what... Pat Ewing? ;) (I kid because I love, I swear!)
Just because the Knicks don't value the draft does not mean their fans don't (I'm more upset about the Knicks trading Kostas Papanikolaou then I am about them not matching Lin, right after I memorized how to spell Papanikolaou :(). I watch NBA prospect before they even get to college thanks to ESPNU, AAU tournaments, and youtube.
 

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Restore the Roar
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Discussion Starter #19
I don't feel that the investment into this would even really be worth it. If you can play you'll get it eventually, whatever league you're in most likely.

And "all the undrafted contributors"...it's really like 3 at the most a season.
Another thing I disagree with - if you're good enough and don't get into the league, usually you'll wind up overseas right? And if you continue to improve there the teams overseas will offer you more money than a cup-of-coffee contract in the NBA. Ask any NBA team, mid-season bringing someone from overseas is RARELY an option. The Lakers brought up 7 guys from the D-League last year alone. By developing these guys IN HOUSE you keep them from being overpaid overseas, you get to see them first hand and teams overseas won't have them as well scouted as they would if they were developed over there. Those teams are far less likely to offer that big contract to bring them overseas if they didn't develop them overseas.
 

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How many Americans are paid or have been paid so well overseas that they don't want to come over?

The only player that could think of was Josh Childress when he went to the Greek League but he was already an established NBA player before he made the move.
 
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