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Discussion Starter · #1 ·
"You have to be dedicated to the game," he said. "You have to have some pride in yourself to want to get better, want to be the best, want to make some strides in your game and in your life.

"Basketball has been great for a lot of people. To see the way a lot of these guys have taken advantage of it, it's sad. They're not putting the effort that I felt like a guy like me or a guy like Pax had to deal with to get to this level and to stay at this level."


http://chicagosports.chicagotribune...smain,1,6650474.story?coll=cs-bulls-headlines

Pippen views pro basketball as a great opportunity for those with a gift to make a wonderful life for themselves and their families. All you have to do is work as hard as you can for a short time and by your late 30's you'll never have a material need for the rest of your life.

From his perspective, however, the Bulls young players have yet to take advantage of this opportunity. They haven't made the effort it takes to excel and become a key component to a winning franchise.

You'll notice that Pippen's remarks are focused on effort and not neccessarily results. I don't think there's a single member of the Bulls organization that would criticize inconsistent performances if the effort to improve was there. In truth, Curry, Chandler, Crawford and Fizer have all been cut a significant amount of slack by management in terms of their productivity. But much has been demanded of them in terms of their effort and ability to absorb knowledge and put what they learn into practice on the court.

Pippen put it succinctly when he said, "If anything, they have to show they've gotten better. That's what it all comes down to. Have you gotten any better since you were drafted here? Are you showing that you're going to make this franchise better in the near future? Have you made any steps? I don't see a lot of steps from a lot of players who have been in this game for two, three years."

It doesn't matter if they're 18, 21 or 25. In the two or three years that they've been professionals, have these young players done everything they can to make themselves better? Or are they only marginally better than they were as rookies?

Pippen has issued them a very matter of fact warning which they should take seriously: "But if you don't have the effort inside of you, I can't pull it out of you. Coach can't pull it out of you. Eventually, people are going to give up on you. They're going to give up on whatever potential you have."

Based on their tenure as professionals and taking into consideration any unique circumstances that may have compromised their development, which of these players would you be willing to invest in long term (5+ years). Be mindful of the very real possibility that once riches are achieved and guarranteed, complacency may set in and what you see today is basically what you'll get for the life of the new contract. Lets hear it, Bulls fans.
 

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Pippens comments dont carry much weight as he only signed here for the money and everyone sees that .Its not like he took the minimum to come play here .On top of that what does he mean "he hasnt seen a lot of steps from guys who have been here two, three years " .Hes been here 6 months hardly practiced ,hardly played and has cost a injured fragile team another healthy body .He doesnt know these players so how can he sit in judgment of them ?

Whats funny is the best part that HE PURPOSELY LEFT OUT.These young kids didnt bring a losing mentallity to the Bulls .Where is the part about management tanking games ? trading good players for no real reason other than not wanting to pay .The Bulls organization is just as guilty as the kids are in this regard.Leave it up to Pip to step in and kick a teammate when hes down .This guy wasnt even showing up for HOME games when he was on the injured list. :rolleyes:

The Bulls basically bred these kids into this mentallity from the start every good player this team has ever had we have traded away (Brand ,Artest,Miller) no matter how hard they worked or consistent they were .

Crawford has been on the block since we drafted him no wonder hes paranoid.He saw Brand and Artest and Miller bust their asses everyday for this team only to get the quick exit before its time to pay .

Curry hes now getting a taste of what bein ga bulls realy means as it seems the entire franchise has turned on him 42 games into his first seasojn as a starter.

They should either lay off the kids and give them more time or blow up the franchise starting at the top .There is no such thing as taking one or two players off this team and turning this franchise around .
 

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They may never turn out to be as good as everyone hoped. But, now that it's starting look like no one is going to pay any of them max money, the Bulls may be able to resign all three relatively cheap.
 

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Discussion Starter · #4 ·
Originally posted by <b>TRUTHHURTS</b>!
Pippens comments dont carry much weight as he only signed here for the money and everyone sees that .Its not like he took the minimum to come play here .On top of that what does he mean "he hasnt seen a lot of steps from guys who have been here two, three years " .Hes been here 6 months hardly practiced ,hardly played and has cost a injured fragile team another healthy body .He doesnt know these players so how can he sit in judgment of them ?

Whats funny is the best part that HE PURPOSELY LEFT OUT.These young kids didnt bring a losing mentallity to the Bulls .Where is the part about management tanking games ? trading good players for no real reason other than not wanting to pay .The Bulls organization is just as guilty as the kids are in this regard.Leave it up to Pip to step in and kick a teammate when hes down .This guy wasnt even showing up for HOME games when he was on the injured list. :rolleyes:

The Bulls basically bred these kids into this mentallity from the start every good player this team has ever had we have traded away (Brand ,Artest,Miller) no matter how hard they worked or consistent they were .

Crawford has been on the block since we drafted him no wonder hes paranoid.He saw Brand and Artest and Miller bust their asses everyday for this team only to get the quick exit before its time to pay .

Curry hes now getting a taste of what bein ga bulls realy means as it seems the entire franchise has turned on him 42 games into his first seasojn as a starter.

They should either lay off the kids and give them more time or blow up the franchise starting at the top .There is no such thing as taking one or two players off this team and turning this franchise around .
You're deflecting the issue (again). You're completely avoiding the purpose of this thread. Set your personal bias with Pippen aside and try to stick to the topic which I'll gladly restate for you:

Based on their tenure as professionals and taking into consideration any unique circumstances that may have compromised their development, which of these players would you be willing to invest in long term (5+ years). Be mindful of the very real possibility that once riches are achieved and guarranteed, complacency may set in and what you see today is basically what you'll get for the life of the new contract. Lets hear it, Bulls fans.

Think you can tear yourself away from all the excuse-making for a moment and try to answer the question?
 

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Originally posted by <b>TRUTHHURTS</b>!
Pippens comments dont carry much weight as he only signed here for the money and everyone sees that .Its not like he took the minimum to come play here .On top of that what does he mean "he hasnt seen a lot of steps from guys who have been here two, three years " .Hes been here 6 months hardly practiced ,hardly played and has cost a injured fragile team another healthy body .He doesnt know these players so how can he sit in judgment of them ?

Whats funny is the best part that HE PURPOSELY LEFT OUT.These young kids didnt bring a losing mentallity to the Bulls .Where is the part about management tanking games ? trading good players for no real reason other than not wanting to pay .The Bulls organization is just as guilty as the kids are in this regard.Leave it up to Pip to step in and kick a teammate when hes down .This guy wasnt even showing up for HOME games when he was on the injured list. :rolleyes:

The Bulls basically bred these kids into this mentallity from the start every good player this team has ever had we have traded away (Brand ,Artest,Miller) no matter how hard they worked or consistent they were .

Crawford has been on the block since we drafted him no wonder hes paranoid.He saw Brand and Artest and Miller bust their asses everyday for this team only to get the quick exit before its time to pay .

Curry hes now getting a taste of what bein ga bulls realy means as it seems the entire franchise has turned on him 42 games into his first seasojn as a starter.

They should either lay off the kids and give them more time or blow up the franchise starting at the top .There is no such thing as taking one or two players off this team and turning this franchise around .
So you care more about Jamal's sorry *** than a guy to help your beloved team to bring 6 Championship. Wake up.

Jamal hasn't done anything yet for this franchise. You give him way too much credit while you give less than fair share of credit to Pip. In my mind, Pip has every right to rip anybody on this team if it comes to.
 

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Originally posted by <b>C Blizzy</b>!


You're deflecting the issue (again). You're completely avoiding the purpose of this thread. Set your personal bias with Pippen aside and try to stick to the topic which I'll gladly restate for you:

Based on their tenure as professionals and taking into consideration any unique circumstances that may have compromised their development, which of these players would you be willing to invest in long term (5+ years). Be mindful of the very real possibility that once riches are achieved and guarranteed, complacency may set in and what you see today is basically what you'll get for the life of the new contract. Lets hear it, Bulls fans.

Think you can tear yourself away from all the excuse-making for a moment and try to answer the question?
It doesnt matter who we invest in!!!!! This franchise is done, the moment the management decided to lose ON PURPOSE and let the losing mentallity in the door it was done .They took winning for granted and for all this talk of paying a player you cant name anyone we have paid post MJ because this franchise isnt commited to anything or anyone but the bottomline .The Bulls havent given anyone a reason to want to stay Bulls past their rookie deals .

If anyones become complacent its management with winning those rings we havent developed a player in over 14 years :laugh: .


Originally posted by jsong

So you care more about Jamal's sorry *** than a guy to help your beloved team to bring 6 Championship. Wake up.

Jamal hasn't done anything yet for this franchise. You give him way too much credit while you give less than fair share of credit to Pip. In my mind, Pip has every right to rip anybody on this team if it comes to.
Pip hasnt done Jack for this franchise the past 6 years stop living in the past.Do I even have to pull up all the Jabs hes taken at the franchise over the years .Hes the last person that should be questioning someones effort and character.

Its not about defending Jamal its about the last 100 or so players that have come to here that weve never committed to .That have not beed good enough for us but seem to do well on other teams .The Bulls the past 6 years seem to bring out the worst in a players game no matter who the player is .After almost a 100 players in 6 years you would think we would stop blaming the players and look deeper because all we have become is a nba farm team.


As I said earlier I commit to no one and I doubt they will want to commit to this team because no one will be able to succeed in its current state of managment.

A winning attitude starts at the top .
 

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I kind of agree with both sides, but this is a great debate.

Winning now, or health of the franchise overall to win later?

There's been little surges along the way, but the point is, we've had coaches that have wanted to win, while management doesn't give them what they need to win.

I'd say our roster is the quickest turning over roster in the league, and guys like Crawford who have watched Brand, Mercer, Artest, Rose, Marshall, and anyone worth anything come and go... he's gotta wonder what's next. Now we're left with role guys, and he's the man... until his contract negotiations start.

There's nothing to look forward to, and to be honest, a long-term contract wouldn't help him because he doesn't WANT to be a part of a team that doesn't really WANT him.

The Bulls are demanding on attitude, work ethic, all of the above... but the bottom line is, you won't get guys like Hinrich and Brand, guys that will come in and work hard every single night on both ends of the floor simply because it's in their character to do so. Most men need inspiration, not coddling, but not berating either.

Pippen isn't doing a great job in inspiring these guys, but he's trying to stay true to a winning character. That's a start.
 

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I imagine it is hard to keep your spirits and work ethic up when you see a revolving door of players. When you never know who your teamate will be from one game to the next. When you never know your role and have to change positions constantly. When you may get benched because you can't guard the guy in front of you who is 3 inches taller and 40lbs stronger. When you never know what coach you will be working with, what your contract situation is, whether the team will trade you or extend you, whatever. I can very easily imagine Eddy & Jamal doing the bare minimum and then heading out and doing whatever. It's easy for everyone to forget that this team has been losing for YEARS now. And nothing management or the players has done has been able to stop the losing. That has to be a frustrating situation for any young player. Especially when your pressured to perform at a level you simply haven't reached yet. To me it is almost like Cleveland demanding that Diop suddenly develops into Shaq or Ben Wallace overnight.
 

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Originally posted by <b>ace20004u</b>!
I imagine it is hard to keep your spirits and work ethic up when you see a revolving door of players. When you never know who your teamate will be from one game to the next. When you never know your role and have to change positions constantly. When you may get benched because you can't guard the guy in front of you who is 3 inches taller and 40lbs stronger. When you never know what coach you will be working with, what your contract situation is, whether the team will trade you or extend you, whatever. I can very easily imagine Eddy & Jamal doing the bare minimum and then heading out and doing whatever. It's easy for everyone to forget that this team has been losing for YEARS now. And nothing management or the players has done has been able to stop the losing. That has to be a frustrating situation for any young player. Especially when your pressured to perform at a level you simply haven't reached yet. To me it is almost like Cleveland demanding that Diop suddenly develops into Shaq or Ben Wallace overnight.
Ace, I don't buy this argument really. Does this magical revolving door keep our 3 C's down? It hasn't affected Denver, Memphis, or Utah now has it?
 

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Originally posted by <b>Squirrel</b>!
They may never turn out to be as good as everyone hoped. But, now that it's starting look like no one is going to pay any of them max money, the Bulls may be able to resign all three relatively cheap.
I hope so. These kids bought into their own "greatness" at the end of last year. With the exception of Chandler..he lays it all out. Maybe what they need is to be low balled financially by the NBA to wake their po' arses up.
 

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Originally posted by <b>superdave</b>!


Ace, I don't buy this argument really. Does this magical revolving door keep our 3 C's down? It hasn't affected Denver, Memphis, or Utah now has it?
Even with the upheaval those teams have had they haven't had as much roster turnover as the Bulls. Also all of those teams have great orginizations! You have Kiki and Jeff Bzdilek (who is an awesome young coach) in denver. In Memphis you have Jerry freaking West and Hubie Brown. In Utah you got Sloan. Nothing the Bulls have compares to those teams orginizationally. If your going to have high roster turnover you had better have one heck of a support structure in place. Also, none of those teams are relying on basically three HS kids.
 

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Originally posted by <b>RoRo</b>!
what's this? organizations win championships?
Thats what Jerry West & Jerry Krause say and I would personally accept it as a truism. Of course players are about 85% of an orginization too.
 

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Originally posted by <b>ace20004u</b>!
Even with the upheaval those teams have had they haven't had as much roster turnover as the Bulls. Also all of those teams have great orginizations! You have Kiki and Jeff Bzdilek (who is an awesome young coach) in denver. In Memphis you have Jerry freaking West and Hubie Brown. In Utah you got Sloan. Nothing the Bulls have compares to those teams orginizationally. If your going to have high roster turnover you had better have one heck of a support structure in place. Also, none of those teams are relying on basically three HS kids.
Please stop calling them HS kids. Jamal is 23, Eddy and Tyson are 21. The Jazz lost Malone and Stockton, they rebuilt the ship in 1 season. Denver was a bottom feeder last year, now they're in the playoff hunt. Memphis was similarly a poor team last year and have rebounded this year. So what is the Bulls excuse? Oh yeah.. the organization.

:sigh:

When is it ever going to be the responsibility of the 3 C's to take their games to another level? Here's a reality check folks... the Bulls are the worst team in the NBA right now. The worst. Can you honestly tell me that the 3 C's together will win a championship in the next 10 years? Pfff.. championship? Let's talk playoffs in the East first ;)

I wonder if fans in LA blame Elgin Baylor for Kandi not turning into a dominant player. After all, he didn't start playing basketball til college at Pacific right? I wonder if fans in Indy blame management for holding Jonathan Bender back. I wonder if Wizards fans still think Kwame will be a superstar given that he's getting a chance now under Eddie Jordan. I wonder if Darius Miles will ever get a jumpshot. I wonder if Eddy will learn how to box out, set a pick, and jump for a rebound. I wonder if Rodney White is a diamond in the rough whose been mismanaged on 2 teams. I wonder if Denver fans think Tskitishvili is being mismanaged too.

Really all these excuses is getting sickening. It just leaves me to wonder. ;)
 

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Originally posted by <b>superdave</b>!


Please stop calling them HS kids. Jamal is 23, Eddy and Tyson are 21. The Jazz lost Malone and Stockton, they rebuilt the ship in 1 season. Denver was a bottom feeder last year, now they're in the playoff hunt. Memphis was similarly a poor team last year and have rebounded this year. So what is the Bulls excuse? Oh yeah.. the organization.

:sigh:

When is it ever going to be the responsibility of the 3 C's to take their games to another level? Here's a reality check folks... the Bulls are the worst team in the NBA right now. The worst. Can you honestly tell me that the 3 C's together will win a championship in the next 10 years? Pfff.. championship? Let's talk playoffs in the East first ;)

I wonder if fans in LA blame Elgin Baylor for Kandi not turning into a dominant player. After all, he didn't start playing basketball til college at Pacific right? I wonder if fans in Indy blame management for holding Jonathan Bender back. I wonder if Wizards fans still think Kwame will be a superstar given that he's getting a chance now under Eddie Jordan. I wonder if Darius Miles will ever get a jumpshot. I wonder if Eddy will learn how to box out, set a pick, and jump for a rebound. I wonder if Rodney White is a diamond in the rough whose been mismanaged on 2 teams. I wonder if Denver fans think Tskitishvili is being mismanaged too.

Really all these excuses is getting sickening. It just leaves me to wonder. ;)
Comparing apples and oranges is only going to leave you with fruit salad. The fact remains that none of the teams you are talking about are coming off of a 6 ring decade. None of the teams you are talking about relied on drafting what in essence WAS three high school seniors. Sure they are a couple of years older, big deal. They were 3-5 year projects when they were drafted and clearly they haven't fulfilled their potential yet. You may as well stand in front a coocoon and yell at it to become a butterfly. It won't change anything.
 

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Originally posted by <b>Squirrel</b>!
They may never turn out to be as good as everyone hoped. But, now that it's starting look like no one is going to pay any of them max money, the Bulls may be able to resign all three relatively cheap.

EXACTLY!! whats the use of trading them? we can sign them all cheap and still have extra money for a big max type SUPASTAR!
 

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Originally posted by <b>C Blizzy</b>!


You're deflecting the issue (again). You're completely avoiding the purpose of this thread. Set your personal bias with Pippen aside and try to stick to the topic which I'll gladly restate for you:

Based on their tenure as professionals and taking into consideration any unique circumstances that may have compromised their development, which of these players would you be willing to invest in long term (5+ years). Be mindful of the very real possibility that once riches are achieved and guarranteed, complacency may set in and what you see today is basically what you'll get for the life of the new contract. Lets hear it, Bulls fans.

Think you can tear yourself away from all the excuse-making for a moment and try to answer the question?
i agree, Jamal is not a professional, Tyson and Eddy either
 

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- I'll say it again, as much as "the 3 Cs" has a certain ring to it, Jamal doesn't belong. The Bulls never counted on Crawford as a building block, evidenced by the fact that they've used their first pick on point guards since drafting Crawford. This isn't to say that they don't hope and pray that Crawford develops into a star...they're just not depending on it.

- Would I invest in the two Cs? Let me think. Would I invest in a pair of talented 21 year olds, one of whom just about everyone is saying lacks competitive desire and another who may have chronic back problems? Sounds like two pretty risky stocks to me. I'll only invest in them if I'm well diversified with T-Bill type players. Hinrich's a start.

- Nice to see Scottie Pippen jumping on the "these guys are hopeless" bandwagon. Given Pippen's current value as a player, I'd rather hear what Corie Blount thinks.

- I would like to see fans, the media and Bulls' management (past and present) promise to quit volunteering excuses for Bulls' players who are performing below expectations. If these players aren't devoting enough effort to making themselves better players, at least they should be forced to devote some effort to coming up with their own excuses.
 

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Originally posted by <b>superdave</b>!


Please stop calling them HS kids. Jamal is 23, Eddy and Tyson are 21. The Jazz lost Malone and Stockton, they rebuilt the ship in 1 season. Denver was a bottom feeder last year, now they're in the playoff hunt. Memphis was similarly a poor team last year and have rebounded this year. So what is the Bulls excuse? Oh yeah.. the organization.

:sigh:

When is it ever going to be the responsibility of the 3 C's to take their games to another level? Here's a reality check folks... the Bulls are the worst team in the NBA right now. The worst. Can you honestly tell me that the 3 C's together will win a championship in the next 10 years? Pfff.. championship? Let's talk playoffs in the East first ;)

I wonder if fans in LA blame Elgin Baylor for Kandi not turning into a dominant player. After all, he didn't start playing basketball til college at Pacific right? I wonder if fans in Indy blame management for holding Jonathan Bender back. I wonder if Wizards fans still think Kwame will be a superstar given that he's getting a chance now under Eddie Jordan. I wonder if Darius Miles will ever get a jumpshot. I wonder if Eddy will learn how to box out, set a pick, and jump for a rebound. I wonder if Rodney White is a diamond in the rough whose been mismanaged on 2 teams. I wonder if Denver fans think Tskitishvili is being mismanaged too.

Really all these excuses is getting sickening. It just leaves me to wonder. ;)
Superdave, it seems that some people doesn't get it. So wrapped up in their own mind, even their seems to fool them. Otherwise, how can they still say 3C is trhe way to go.

I for one so frustrated, just like you, I coudn't wait to BLOW UP this pity team and start over.

I would never thought that I would say another rebuilding plan is way to go, but this group of players doesn't leave much of option other than that. I think we'd better start from zero than this mess in my opinion. So dump everybody (except Kirk and Tyson) and build a new team through trade and FA.

And please God No. Not through DRAFT. NOT AGAIN.
 
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