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I know we have multiple threads on the re-alignment, but most understandably degrade into chest-puffing antics as to why team X is a shoe-in for BE7+ and team Y has sucked the A-10 dry for 30 years.

So.. I would like to hear in your words, not why you should be included in BE7+, but what is the allure to being included in BE7+. This isn't sarcastic, I'm not looking to fight with anyone. I know where Bonaventure stands in re-alignment land, and it's not pretty. I'm predominantly asking Xavier, Dayton, St. Louis, and Butler, but invite fans of every A-10 school to tell me why BE7+ is the promised land.

I'll start by saying I don't think it is. I think BE7 contains 2 or 3 good programs, and 4 that are past their prime. When certain fan bases sit and criticize Fordham, Bona, LaSalle, Rhody for pulling down this conference, I question how long until those same fan bases are no longer enamored with Seton Hall, DePaul, Providence, and St. John's in BE7+. Is it conference size? Less sharing with the money-grubbing bottom-feeders? If the allure is having the top A-10 teams combine with the top BE teams then I understand that - I just question why you'd take the BE4 that aren't that great along for the ride.
 

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Georgetown, Villanova and to a lesser extent Marquette are premier brands. Even if St. John's remains a dog (which I don't think will be the case), better to be stuck with St. John's than Fordham. Being stuck with Seton Hall is better than being stuck with Duquesne. Being stuck with Providence is better than being stuck with LaSalle. DePaul sucks, but every conference needs someone to bring up the rear.

Top to bottom, it will be a much better league than the current A-10. Not so much because of the top (which will be a bit better I think), but because the bottom will be so much less bad (not eloquent, but you get the point).
 

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X, UD, StL, Butler - Explain the "allure" of the BE7.

Simple - no St. Bonaventure, La Salle, or Fordham.




 

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To add to the "leading question" negatives... What happens when/if Georgetown is lured out by the ACC?
 

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As an X fan, I think the allure is two-fold. One, the top programs of the C7 are brand names with good recent success. Second, it's the idea of combining the top of the C7 with the teams mentioned (X, Butler, Gonzaga, etc.) that appeals. Then you are looking at what is on paper a really strong conference.

I have genuinely enjoyed being in the A10 for nearly 20 years or whatever it is now. If X joins with the C7, I will miss playing all the teams in the league. Unlike some posters, I think pretty much everyone in the league has brought value during the time X has been a member. (Fordham has been a real struggle, but their fans on this board may be the most likable.) Some of the schools I really like a lot, and find myself rooting for whenever X doesn't play them (particularly the Bonnies). Some of the teams, even if I don't particularly like them, I appreciate what they've done for the league (here I am thinking especially of GW). If it were possible to bring over the top of the C7, that would be ideal, but they have made it clear that can't happen.
 

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For years the fans of the A10 have discussed cleaning house. They never do it. Sometimes it's just time to move to greener pastures. Every conference will have a bad team. I'd rather have a bad team that can generate interest that one that is unknown in the basketball world.

See, I didn't even name names. I'm also fairly convinced that the BE7 are only going to take 3 right now.

Still lots of discussions going on.
 

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I have genuinely enjoyed being in the A10 for nearly 20 years or whatever it is now.
Of course. This SHOULD go without saying. Joining the A-10 is the best thing that ever happened to Xavier. That doesn't mean it's not time to go if the right opportunity presents itself.
 

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You also have to look forward some. From SLU's perspective, what will the A-10 look like without X, Butler and/or Dayton? An A-10 without those 3 but keeping the bottom feeders...ugh.

Travel would likely be easier, especially if there is an East and West division.

Money.

Improved recruiting. In terms of recruiting, joining the C7 would likely help SLU more than it would help X, Butler and Dayton.

A conference with the C7 has national recognition. ESPN knows it and likes it. It also can't hurt when it comes to selection sunday.

If the C7 keep the big east name, there is value in the goodwill of the Big East name, which helps attract/maintain national attention. In terms of student recruitment/alumni support for SLU, the C7 would be like the A-10 on steroids.

A conference with Georgetown, Marquette, X, Butler, Dayton and possibly Creighton really moves the needle for SLU fans. Attendance is likely to improve and I think the fan base will generally be more excited about the 9 or 11 other teams in the conference with SLU.

Again, more money.
 

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The BB schools in the former BE had to get out. I think X and BU have already agreed to join. ESPN will pay 20-30 mill for TV rights to the new league. Why not? They now care-less about televising BE Football. Let somebody else have it. Huge savings. Get ready for Big Monday - G'Town vs X.
 

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Not to reiterate what everyone else above has said, Xavier wants to continue to maintain and grow its presence on the East Coast. This has been a marketing plan for the university for several years, if not longer. The basketball team wants to recruit in places like Philly and Baltimore/DC and the university wants to seek prospective students from the East Coast.

Now obviously the A10 has East Coast schools. But if I'm a high school junior looking at colleges, Georgetown and Villanova are more well-known than GW and LaSalle. That's just me. I would think East Coast alumni would also welcome the change.

I believe that, for Xavier, this move is as important to the university's future marketing plan and its overall well-being as it is important for basketball.
 

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If it were possible to bring over the top of the C7, that would be ideal, but they have made it clear that can't happen.
I dont understand why it cannot happen. If the A10 stays together in solidarity, the 7 schools are out of options and would have to beg for A10 membership. Gonzaga is not going to join them alone without some Xaviers and Butlers in the plan.

The 7 schools are in a bad negotiating position. All they can sell is blue sky and they're screwed if no one dons a cape and rescues them. I think the A10 and Bernie should play hardball.
 

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I think they have plenty of leverage. For one thing, there are other schools that they could add. Creighton is a good example. They might have to reach down to a lesser league to fill it out (George Mason from the CAA, for example), but they could pretty quickly get a basketball conference up and running that is darn good without including any of the A10 teams. It would not be as good as if they add X/Butler/etc., but it would still be pretty good. And it would probably foreclose, forever, any chance of the A10 teams who turned them down being in a conference with any of the BE7.
 

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"Xavier is the obvious team to be coveted by the departing seven Catholic schools. The A-10 can’t afford to lose its marquee program. But the league certainly can’t stand to lose Butler, either. The Bulldogs were a major coup for the A-10 and losing Xavier and Butler would be a crushing blow to the A-10’s future."

-Katz
 

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IMHO, there is no "allure" to the BE7 if the A10 hangs together on this. The current A10 is a better league than the BE7 because the top programs in the A10 are both more numerous and arguably better than the top of the BE7, and quite frankly the bottom-feeders in both "leagues" are pretty comparable. That said, I would love the A10 to add Marquette and G'town even though I don't trust G'town longer than a NY minute if other options arise for them. I am OK with adding the whole bunch if that is the only way to incorporate the better teams in that group, but I would strongly prefer not adding Seton Hall, DePaul, and Providence.
 

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Why leave? Because X, Butler, Dayton, SLU, etc would be cutting the fat. Plain and simple. You can be with GTown, Nova, Marquette, St. Johns and 2 "bottom feeders" with DePaul (Chicago), Seton Hall (NJ) or you can be with Fordham, St. Bonaventure, and the other 12 members of the A10. If the A10 were currently 8 members, maybe getting the BE7 to join could happen. Maybe even at 9. But 21 schools is too many...not enough TV money with a 21 team split. The A10 would need a TV contract double that of the #2 conference just to increase the per-school annual revenue at 21-22 schools.
 

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I think the general appeal is that the institutions are like minded and similar (at least for schools like UD/XU/SLU). I also think a big part of the appeal is that many of these schools have had historical rivalries. Is the BE7 better than the current A-10? If you look at the numbers, and there are people who are doing it over at UDPride (and these people are being mocked by certain camps (ahem, TMan)), the gap isn't all that big - especially given the recent success of XU, VCU and Butler. Nova, Georgetown and Marquette are all solid, but the others are pretty darn bad - owing much of their RPI to playing schools that are leaving the BE for green pastures. The BE7 need the top A-10 schools (at least XU and Butler) otherwise they are in trouble.

Personally, I hope the new league goes big and incorporates a significant portion of the A-10. I think there is a real opportunity to create a large, basketball centric league that could be very successful. VCU, Richmond, St Joes, SLU, Butler, Dayton and XU all seem like natural fits. The Dukes, GW, St Bonnies, RI all bring something to the table and have had recent success. It is going to be interesting. And the A-10 commissioner has a tough job because presumably she is tasked with safe guarding every schools' interest.
 

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Just a few things from my end:

The most common factor people bring up: trimming the fat. No more Fordham, URI, GW, LaSalle etc. While I will agree these programs are slowly rising (URI with Hurley etc) and I will agree that Depaul, Seton Hall and Providence are not exactly high level programs there is absolutely zero comparison here in my point of view and I don't think there is from a recruiting standpoint either. Of course you are also adding in Georgetown, Marquette, Villanova (admittedly on a bad run right now), and what in my opinion is a quietly rising St. Johns (which is HUGE for the conference). Steve Lavin has that program growing and if they get to where I think they will, in NYC of all places, that will be huge for this conference.

Second, general brand recognition. I just touched on the recruiting perspective, which is huge. Admittedly a lot of this comes down to the "Big East" name, which from what I am hearing is likely to be given to the basketball schools. Selling a recruit on playing St. Johns and Seton Hall and playing in the Big East tourney at MSG is much easier than selling trips to Olean or Rose Hill.

I think the biggest thing though is the TV contract. ESPN wants to keep the Big East and catholic schools and the schools obviously want ESPN. If this conference is playing games on "Big Monday" or "Super Tuesday" or prime time Saturday games that is HUGE for program and conference recognition. Recruits see that constantly and can see themselves playing on that stage. Think recruits are tuning in for Xavier's A10 games on FSO or CBSCS or Dayton's games on the local station? I'm doubting it. I understand the A10 just improved their TV deal but from what people are saying I highly doubt it will match what this new conference could bring in.

At the end of the day, I'm content in the A10 in its current state but this move is an absolute no brainer in my opinion
 

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I think calling DePaul and Providence "bottom feeders" is a bit of a misnomer. Those teams became bottom feeders when football money took over the Big East, but before that they were quality programs. Providence was just fine in the original Big East, and DePaul was just fine in Conference USA. They won a lot of games, made final fours, and produced NCAA caliber teams on a regular basis. I think breaking away will help them. The number of programs who simply have more than them will decrease from 12 or so down to just a handful.

As for why Dayton would want to join, it's the same reason why everyone in this league would want to "move up". More money, more exposure, easier to recruit top level talent. Xavier, Temple, Butler, and Gonzaga have proven you CAN do great things over an extended period of time in a league with less than great resources, but it's that much easier to do great things with the power of a truly great league behind you.

I understand why some question how good this new league would be, but I don't. These 7 programs want to be great every year, and they have the commitment and resources to make it happen. Like I have said, I trust them to do it more than I trust a good portion of the A10. That new league is going to be very strong.
 
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