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Discussion Starter · #1 ·
How's about this:

Seattle trades Kenny Anderson, Vlad Rad, Peja Drobjnak, and Des Mason

Chicago trades ERob, Fizer, and Crawford.

Why for the Sonics:

1. It gets them firmly under the luxury tax threshold by knocking about $1.5M in salary off their cap. This probably makes it easier for them to re-sign Payton next year.

2. It gives them a low post scorer, Fizer, to replace Baker.

3. It trades in a square peg PG (Anderson, because of his age) for a round peg PG whom they can groom behind Payton.

4. None of the guys they're giving up have the upside of Fizer and Crawford.

Why for the Bulls:

1. The Crawford situation could blow up in our faces. Reports are that there is mutual animosity.

2. Kenny Anderson would be a solid vet to match with JWill in Crawford's absence.

3. Anderson's contract expires at the end of the year, giving us a sizeable chunk of change to play with in the free agent market.

4. The remaining players, while perhaps not having the complete upside of the guys they replace, all seem to be very good fits for this team:

* Mason can fill the ERob role, but he's a stronger guy who's a better defender.

* Rad was born to play in the triangle. It's hard not to compare the guy to Kukoc... he's 6'10, agile, can shoot the rock, rebound, and pass. In games he started, he average 1.6 steals. He's such a better fit for us than Fizer it's not even funny.

* Peja Drobjnak is a big guy (6'10, 270), who reminds me (in a good way) a little of Bill Wennington. A good passer and decent shooter who could find some decent minutes in the triangle.

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In the long run, we'd be better off with these guys. This year, we let the team come together, grow, and learn. Let Anderson play his temporary role. Then, using the money we recoup from his contract expiring, we bring in a good free agent over the summer to put us over the top.
 

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I disagree with you analysis of Seattle's players.

I would take Radmonovic over any of the players in this deal, and Desmond Mason second. Drobnjak has shown he is a caple post player as well. These are things that Seattle needs.

Anderson may get them close to luxury tax land this season but he is off the books next season. WHile Crawford is defintely a better fit for their future, Fizer is not. Radmovovic is already better than him at the 3/4 type spot. ERob would be a colossal waste behind Lewis.

I think Seattle is going to work to keep Payton but not sweat it if he bolts, and the same for Anderson because Mason, Lewis, and Radmonovic are a decent core, and they added Booth as well, who can be a capable center when healthy.
 

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'd b against this tade for a bunch of reasons

the sonics would not go for it for a simple reason gary payton is still there and he isn't going to go backwards for the time being for a greater jump later the clock i ticking on his career and he hears it

the dye is cast for now at point if not for the whole season at least til the trade deadline see what the bulls have at point before even considering which to trade

both are relatively unproven but a half season of uninjured play could do a lot for picking a future at the position

at some point they could trade one to denver or cleve. both teams need a point guard badly and both have a high pick in next years draft (unless their centers are healthy for once) and let them get their pick a half season early in a point that is better than anyone projected to come out at the point guard spot.

i can see why seattle would want fizer(they have no true post up players) but i dont know why we would want radmonovic in return he would never start and his game is not really an instant offense type suited for coming off te bench like fizer

anderson is still a quality point but his pime value at thispoint is his ending contract and unless the bulls have someone in mind to aquire he isn't worth the salary for a season to be a backup

and robinson its in our best interest to see what he can do healthy be4 shipping him off
 

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Discussion Starter · #4 ·
BCH,

Truthfully, I'd be willing to take back just Vlad Rad and Anderson. If you were Seattle, would this make the deal for you? I do disagree on a couple of points:

1. The cap question is ultimately objective. That is, we don't know what Seattle's true position to getting under the luxury threshold is. If they're serious about it, then the trade makes some sense. If they're willing to pay the tax, it doesn't.

2. I disagree that Fizer is of no use to them. While he certainly has his flaws, he's a way better offensive post player than Drobjnak, and aside from Vlad Rad, none of the Supes big guys really have much scoring ability at all. And Vlad Rad himself seems to me to be more of an outside shooting big guy than a take it inside big guy. Finally, he's only like 230 lbs.... not really that big.

3. If Mason were included in the trade, they'd have a place for ERob as a sixth man behind Lewis and Brent Barry (and possible successor to Barry.


Grinch,

I see some of your points, and the only real disagreement I have is that I think you're underestimating how good of a fit Radmanovich would be for the Bulls (or any team running the triangle). Dude can flat out shoot the rock, and he's effective in all phases of the game. Contrast that to Fizer, who really only does one thing well, and dumping the ball in to the post in insolation screws up the triangle.
 

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Discussion Starter · #5 ·
I want to revisit this.

Anderson + Rad for ERob, Fizer, and Crawford.

I looked at the cap ramifications again, and it seems to make sense to me.

For the Bulls, Anderson's expiring contract gives them a LOT of room for signing free agents next year. Currently, we're scheduled to be at $34M under the cap next offseason (assuming we pick up our player options). By pulling this trade, we lower our salary to just under $24M for next year. Given that the cap is likely gonna be about $41M again, we'll have about $17M to spend in free agency, plus our exceptions, which gives us a chance at any FA we want, maybe a couple of them.

Unlike our past free agency fiascos, I think we would have a good chance next year. Unlike in prior years, we've already got an exciting, talented group of players. An FA looking at the Bulls would have decidedly more room for optimism than they did a couple years ago.

OK, so if the FA situation is so great, why shouldn't Seattle just keep Anderson and play the market themselves? Well, because they're starting from a different place than we are. Without a trade, The Sonics have approximately $33M in salary committed next year NOT counting Gary Payton. Therein lies the rub. Even with KA's expiring contract, if they re-sign Payton, they're over the cap and hence, unable to make a big move in the FA market. They're stuck in the NBA limbo of being a team that's probably too good to gain much through the draft or free agency, but not good enough to put themselves over the top and win anything. If they let Payton go, they're seen as not being enough of a contender to attract big-money free agents even though they've got the money. If they keep Payton, they don't have the money to attract free agents.

This trade offers the Sonics a chance to improve themselves significantly by getting players of a quality they realistically won't be able to get via the draft or free agency (unless they don't re-sign Payton... in which case getting better players would probably only be treading water anyway). If the Sonics pull the trade, they'll be at $38 million next year, and have options on Crawford and Fizer. If they pickup Crawford's option, they're at $40.5M, and both Crawford's and Fizers, they're at $44M. While this is over the cap, renouncing Fizer but keeping Crawford would probably still allow Seattle to keep Payton at the Max and avoid the luxury tax. To re-sign Fizer as well, they'd probably have to pay the tax, but they'd have the option to consider. Also, Brent Barry would be entering the last year of his contract, and hence, would probably be fairly tradeable.

In short, they would be able to keep Payton, and add Crawford and ERob at the cost of Radmanovic... all while staying out of the luxury tax range. Realistically, that's probably better than they'd be able to get solely by playing the free agent market. Additionally, they have the choice of trying to retain Fizer past this year if they are willing to pay for him.

Hence, I see this trade working for both teams.
 

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MikeDC,

Rad is clearly the best player in this deal. With Payton and Anderson coming off their deals the Sonics will have the ability to sign some players and they will definitely be of the quality of Fizer or ERob. Crawford is not worth Rad straight up. If the Bulls took on equally bad salary instead of Anderson, it would be more reaslistic, but I still doubt it would ever happen with Rad involved.

There will be a few PGs in next years draft as well.

So considering future holes for Seattle are PG and possibly C, I don't see a reason to go after Crawford with the proposed deal.
 

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Originally posted by <b>Mikedc</b>!
OK, so if the FA situation is so great, why shouldn't Seattle just keep Anderson and play the market themselves? Well, because they're starting from a different place than we are. Without a trade, The Sonics have approximately $33M in salary committed next year NOT counting Gary Payton. Therein lies the rub. Even with KA's expiring contract, if they re-sign Payton, they're over the cap and hence, unable to make a big move in the FA market.
Can't they sign Payton using their Larry Bird rights... where as they would be able to get another player?

-Petey
 
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