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Old 11-05-2015, 11:41 AM   #16 (permalink)
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Re: Terrence Ross signs 33M/3yr extension

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I don't even understand what your question is dude. The contract ends after this season. Why the hell would we need to add anyone now? Are you seriously telling me that we can't find a backup shooting guard to play 20 min a game if we had to?

How about this, we don't even need to find anyone from outside the organization. Norman Powell. There, let him play 20 min and I can guarantee you that he won't average less than 8 ppg a game which is likely what Ross will end up averaging this year. I mean what planet are you living on where it's rough to find a wing player, a backup wing player that is, to play 20 min for your team.

But just for the sake of it, these are the guys that we can sign next year or try to get via trade(that won't take much assets) that will be cheaper than Ross.

Gerald Henderson
Courtney Lee
Aaron Affalo(if he opts out)
Evan Turner
Gerald Green
Jamal Crawford

The list goes on and on. I'm not even going to bother with the guys that we can trade for. It's the wing position for god's sake. Everyone has a spare.

I'll tell you an actual legitimate reason for signing Ross to this contract. In case DeRozan leaves via free agency, Ross can step in and be his replacement. This is the only reason that actually makes any remote sense in my opinion. Although if we lose DeMar without finding a replacement and had to replace him with Ross, the team is going down the toilet anyway.
You don't extend Ross now and you upset the chemistry and the balance of the team moving this season, it's as simple as that.

All of the players you listed are roughly $6-8m a year salary guys, that's effectively what Ross has been given under this new deal. He's also on the upward curve of his career while the majority of the others are looking back at the other side. It's like adding Lou Williams to that list, they're players that are career journeymen because they struggle to a piece in a wider scheme, Ross seems to be playing exactly in the spot we need him to right now.

We're 5-0. The team hasn't spent your money, it's spent the owners. Why don't you focus on the fact we're unbeaten - they clearly have some idea of what they're doing.
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Old 11-05-2015, 12:31 PM   #17 (permalink)
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Re: Terrence Ross signs 33M/3yr extension

The contract also appears to be 3 years at $31 million.
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Old 11-05-2015, 03:34 PM   #18 (permalink)
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Re: Terrence Ross signs 33M/3yr extension

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You don't extend Ross now and you upset the chemistry and the balance of the team moving this season, it's as simple as that.

All of the players you listed are roughly $6-8m a year salary guys, that's effectively what Ross has been given under this new deal. He's also on the upward curve of his career while the majority of the others are looking back at the other side. It's like adding Lou Williams to that list, they're players that are career journeymen because they struggle to a piece in a wider scheme, Ross seems to be playing exactly in the spot we need him to right now.

We're 5-0. The team hasn't spent your money, it's spent the owners. Why don't you focus on the fact we're unbeaten - they clearly have some idea of what they're doing.
I wasn't aware that bench wingman are that vital to team chemistry. You actually can add Lou Williams to that list. For a scoring spark off the bench give me Lou over Ross every day of the week and twice on Sundays.

Those guys are not going to cost you 33 mil or 31 mil over 3 years. Most of them are veteran role players that you can likely get at a bargain on short term deals. Which is exactly what teams should be spending on BENCH WING PLAYERS. I'll say it again, BENCH WING PLAYERS. No team is investing long term deals for those guys. Most of them are a revolving door of players that offer you similar production. You know why that is? Because they are not that important, they simply aren't. For you to bring team chemistry into this is just laughable.
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Old 11-05-2015, 08:43 PM   #19 (permalink)
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Re: Terrence Ross signs 33M/3yr extension

I actually agree with seifer on this one, and don't forget that I was driving the Ross bandwagon before we even drafted him. It is very unlikely for players to just all of a sudden put it together given how little Ross has shown (save for a certain 51 point night). But for Ross to get more than what JR Smith or Shumpert are getting doesn't seem to make much sense. I'm not sure what the downside of waiting it out would have been - you don't here about too many distractions coming from a third guy coming off the bench playing in a contract year.

edit- Let me add to this by saying that I still like Ross, and believe he is a decent player for this role and hope he develops into a JR Smith-type player. I'll also concede that he's been pretty good this season. But I've always contended that I don't care what other people do with their money as long as it doesn't affect what you can do when building a team. And to lose whatever the difference between the 10 million and his cap hold would have been might end up being significant the season that the cap goes up, I'm just saying.
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Old 11-08-2015, 08:32 PM   #20 (permalink)
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I think you know who I'm siding with in this one. My boy sonny weems was never given the chance Ross had. I don't think there would be a huge drop off if the raps just sign weems or bazemore. Probably can be had for cheap too.
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Old 11-08-2015, 09:54 PM   #21 (permalink)
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Re: Terrence Ross signs 33M/3yr extension

I like how ever since Porn said that not having Ross would upset our 5-0 team chemistry our team has now lost 2 games in a row and Ross has gone scoreless in the past 2 games.

Maybe Porn will now say that when Ross scores our team wins and when he doesn't we lose. You can make a bunch of dots look like anything if you squint your eyes long enough. Sometimes dots are just dots. A bench player that plays 15-20 min just isn't that important. Bringing in vague terms like "Team chemistry" and "Winning mentality" doesn't overshadow the fact that the dude is a shitty player. There I said it. He is a BAD player. In fact, before the Raptors signed him to this extension, I would be less surprised if he is out of the league than making 33 million.
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Old 11-09-2015, 01:36 PM   #22 (permalink)
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Re: Terrence Ross signs 33M/3yr extension

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Originally Posted by seifer0406 View Post
I like how ever since Porn said that not having Ross would upset our 5-0 team chemistry our team has now lost 2 games in a row and Ross has gone scoreless in the past 2 games.

Maybe Porn will now say that when Ross scores our team wins and when he doesn't we lose. You can make a bunch of dots look like anything if you squint your eyes long enough. Sometimes dots are just dots. A bench player that plays 15-20 min just isn't that important. Bringing in vague terms like "Team chemistry" and "Winning mentality" doesn't overshadow the fact that the dude is a shitty player. There I said it. He is a BAD player. In fact, before the Raptors signed him to this extension, I would be less surprised if he is out of the league than making 33 million.
I disagree. He is not a bad player. He brings enough quality to warrant being in the NBA.

Would I have paid him $31 million over 3 years? No. But it's not my money and I really don't see the point in getting pissed at the management when they make a call like this. They understand the cap far better than I ever will and if this signing turns out to be the reason we can't get somebody like Durant, then I'll hold my hands up and say I got it wrong, it does matter. But when the alternatives are players like Lou Williams and Amir Johnson, I don't think the difference in personnel matters enough to warrant a bashing.
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Old 11-09-2015, 02:08 PM   #23 (permalink)
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Re: Terrence Ross signs 33M/3yr extension

I believe he got a slight bump in salary due to a shorter term which works out for both sides. Would not be surprised if there was some sort of team option in the final year as well.

If they want to trade him he's more attractive to other teams and 3 years 33 million is more preferable to a team vs. a 4 or 5 year contract.

Terrence Ross probably thinks that he can cash in in 3 years as well.

Anyways, this contract is not nearly as bad as some people are making it out to be...I wouldn't personally give him that much money..but even if he doesn't progress as they hope..a 3 year contract is not crippling and they could easily trade it.
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Old 11-09-2015, 03:40 PM   #24 (permalink)
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Re: Terrence Ross signs 33M/3yr extension

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I disagree. He is not a bad player. He brings enough quality to warrant being in the NBA.

Would I have paid him $31 million over 3 years? No. But it's not my money and I really don't see the point in getting pissed at the management when they make a call like this. They understand the cap far better than I ever will and if this signing turns out to be the reason we can't get somebody like Durant, then I'll hold my hands up and say I got it wrong, it does matter. But when the alternatives are players like Lou Williams and Amir Johnson, I don't think the difference in personnel matters enough to warrant a bashing.
The it's not your money argument just fails from every angle. Then would you mind if we sign Brian Scalabrine for the max contract? You wouldn't care either because it's not your money? How about we sign every scrub from the d-league and give everyone of them max contracts and use up all of our capspace? You're fine with that because it's somebody else's money? Does this sound stupid enough or should I keep going.

It's not about who's money it is dude. When your team spends money on the wrong people then guess what, your team either won't be any good or it could be a lot better. If you care about your team being good then you should care about who they spend money on. If winning isn't important to you and you just want to see the players you like playing on your team then you're not really a Raptor fan, you are a Ross fan.

And yes, Ross is a bad player. Most of his games usually goes like this. He launches a few 3s early on in the game, sometimes contested 3s. If he makes them then great, he'll give a shit the rest of the game. If he miss the first 3 shots, then that's a wrap and on to the next one. Good players will try to do other things when one thing isn't working. DeRozan gets to the line when his shots aren't falling. This year Demar is becoming a distributor as well when he gets double teamed. That's what I call development as a player. Ross does none of that. Right now he's just an average spot up shooter that can't give you anything else when his shots aren't falling.

And don't create false dilemmas to justify this signing. This isn't "It's either signing Ross to this bloated contract or end up with Amir or Lou Williams". There are a ton of options that even include just not spending the money and wait for opportunity. We were not in a desperate situation that warrants making a move like this one.
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Old 11-09-2015, 05:09 PM   #25 (permalink)
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Re: Terrence Ross signs 33M/3yr extension

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The it's not your money argument just fails from every angle. Then would you mind if we sign Brian Scalabrine for the max contract? You wouldn't care either because it's not your money? How about we sign every scrub from the d-league and give everyone of them max contracts and use up all of our capspace? You're fine with that because it's somebody else's money? Does this sound stupid enough or should I keep going.

It's not about who's money it is dude. When your team spends money on the wrong people then guess what, your team either won't be any good or it could be a lot better. If you care about your team being good then you should care about who they spend money on. If winning isn't important to you and you just want to see the players you like playing on your team then you're not really a Raptor fan, you are a Ross fan.

And yes, Ross is a bad player. Most of his games usually goes like this. He launches a few 3s early on in the game, sometimes contested 3s. If he makes them then great, he'll give a shit the rest of the game. If he miss the first 3 shots, then that's a wrap and on to the next one. Good players will try to do other things when one thing isn't working. DeRozan gets to the line when his shots aren't falling. This year Demar is becoming a distributor as well when he gets double teamed. That's what I call development as a player. Ross does none of that. Right now he's just an average spot up shooter that can't give you anything else when his shots aren't falling.

And don't create false dilemmas to justify this signing. This isn't "It's either signing Ross to this bloated contract or end up with Amir or Lou Williams". There are a ton of options that even include just not spending the money and wait for opportunity. We were not in a desperate situation that warrants making a move like this one.
A little odd for you to accuse him of that seeing as you're the one comparing signing Ross to a 3 year 33 mil deal to signing Brian Scalibrine and D league players to max contracts....
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Old 11-09-2015, 05:41 PM   #26 (permalink)
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Re: Terrence Ross signs 33M/3yr extension

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A little odd for you to accuse him of that seeing as you're the one comparing signing Ross to a 3 year 33 mil deal to signing Brian Scalibrine and D league players to max contracts....
First of all Porn said that the alternative is signing guys like Lou Williams and Amir Johnson. I'm pointing out that that's not the only alternative. It's a false dilemma because he thinks it's either Ross for 33 mil or Amir or Lou for similar money. It's not.

Secondly I'm not saying signing Ross to 33 mil is like giving Scalabrine the max. I don't know how you read that post and come out with that type of conclusion. You completely misunderstood the conversation. Porn said that he doesn't care about the dollar figure because it is not his money. If that's the case then why would he care if we spend max dollar on Scalabrine. It's not his money either way.

The point I'm making is that saying fans shouldn't care about how their team spends money because it's not their own money doesn't make any sense. If you're a fan then you want your team to be good. How good your team is depends on how it spends money.
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Old 11-09-2015, 05:48 PM   #27 (permalink)
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Re: Terrence Ross signs 33M/3yr extension

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A little odd for you to accuse him of that seeing as you're the one comparing signing Ross to a 3 year 33 mil deal to signing Brian Scalibrine and D league players to max contracts....
I anticipate the next 20 posts being very personal in nature.
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Old 11-09-2015, 06:41 PM   #28 (permalink)
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Re: Terrence Ross signs 33M/3yr extension

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First of all Porn said that the alternative is signing guys like Lou Williams and Amir Johnson. I'm pointing out that that's not the only alternative. It's a false dilemma because he thinks it's either Ross for 33 mil or Amir or Lou for similar money. It's not.

Secondly I'm not saying signing Ross to 33 mil is like giving Scalabrine the max. I don't know how you read that post and come out with that type of conclusion. You completely misunderstood the conversation. Porn said that he doesn't care about the dollar figure because it is not his money. If that's the case then why would he care if we spend max dollar on Scalabrine. It's not his money either way.

The point I'm making is that saying fans shouldn't care about how their team spends money because it's not their own money doesn't make any sense. If you're a fan then you want your team to be good. How good your team is depends on how it spends money.
It's not about the money when you slightly overspend to keep a young wing with high potential. Ross could have got 11 from some other dumb team, the Raptors paid him that to keep him. With the cap going up it won't hamstring them financially. That is why Porn isn't worried.

That's not really the same as comparing it to maxing out Brian Scalibrine who is old and, in all respect to the Red Mamba, sucks.
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Old 11-09-2015, 06:42 PM   #29 (permalink)
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Re: Terrence Ross signs 33M/3yr extension

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You're just saying that because you want to get personal with me, R-Star.
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Old 11-09-2015, 06:48 PM   #30 (permalink)
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Re: Terrence Ross signs 33M/3yr extension

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It's not about the money when you slightly overspend to keep a young wing with high potential. Ross could have got 11 from some other dumb team, the Raptors paid him that to keep him. With the cap going up it won't hamstring them financially. That is why Porn isn't worried.

That's not really the same as comparing it to maxing out Brian Scalibrine who is old and, in all respect to the Red Mamba, sucks.
He's a 25 year old wing player with a skillset that's a dime a dozen.

But at least you are being reasonable with your assessment of slightly paying more. That's not what Porn said though. He started this conversation by telling us that we shouldn't have a negative opinion because it's not our money. Again, if that's his position then he shouldn't have a problem with us paying anybody the max because it's not our money.

That said I don't think this move will "kill the team" financially. A move doesn't have to be apocalyptic for it to be a bad move. I just don't see any reason why we need to lock up an unproven player(not that young, turns 25 in a few months) who had no chance of becoming a starter under our current roster.
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