[GoCatsGo]

I think the longer it goes on the more they need to seriously look at refurbishing and remodeling Patrick....but like, right now.

The first order of business is putting in chair-back seating for the bleachers- sounds so basic, but imagine sitting in an actual seat at Patrick and not being Brennan's recliner? There's enough data post-2004-05 that shows average annual attendance is probably somewhere between 2000-22000 people.....so even if you lose some seating from current capacity, I do not think it will be an issue, because let's face it will the team ever be as popular given the mix of personalities on the TB/TJ/TC teams? People loved those teams because they LOVED Brennan and they loved Coppenrath b/c he was from Vermont and turned into the best Vermont-born player ever. I'm fairly confident there will never be another coach as well liked as Brennan, and the chances of having another Coppenrath is higher, but still incredibly remote.

So fix Patrick up.....make it so people will want to come to games and exciting. Hoping on this home run, long-shot of a new arena is proving to be unrealistic.

One thing Vermont can do is work with what it has-and that's something Vermonters have always shown they can do- but I just don't see it doing that despite the basketball team somewhat improbably competing at a very high level...continually, for a real long time now.

I brought up the idea of making Patrick better by making it (slightly) smaller a while ago. The official capacity is 3266, but as a friend of mind likes to say, "That was when everyone had 18-inch asses." Cut that number down to 2800-3000, create a little more space for everyone. I'm not in the building trade, but surely there is some more spacious, more comfortable, yet still collapsible (for the purposes of maintaining the gym space) seating options available to us at an attainable cost.

The hardest part would be convincing those in charge that the diminished capacity is worth it in the long run...especially, as it's been pointed out, even with all the healthy crowds UVM generally has, we rarely crack that 3000 number.

 

[Catcountry21]

I brought up the idea of making Patrick better by making it (slightly) smaller a while ago. The official capacity is 3266, but as a friend of mind likes to say, "That was when everyone had 18-inch asses." Cut that number down to 2800-3000, create a little more space for everyone. I'm not in the building trade, but surely there is some more spacious, more comfortable, yet still collapsible (for the purposes of maintaining the gym space) seating options available to us at an attainable cost.

The hardest part would be convincing those in charge that the diminished capacity is worth it in the long run...especially, as it's been pointed out, even with all the healthy crowds UVM generally has, we rarely crack that 3000 number.

I personally LOVE this idea of decreased capacity. Why don't they look into turning the court and adding some seats behind the baskets with more comfortable seats on the sides. Put the fans right on top of the players. Cram in 2800 people and all of a sudden you have one hell of an atmosphere for a college basketball game. I like the looks of 2800-3000 people with no empty seats a lot more than a 4500 seat arena with 3000 people.

 

[CATLIKE]

I personally LOVE this idea of decreased capacity. Why don't they look into turning the court and adding some seats behind the baskets with more comfortable seats on the sides. Put the fans right on top of the players. Cram in 2800 people and all of a sudden you have one hell of an atmosphere for a college basketball game. I like the looks of 2800-3000 people with no empty seats a lot more than a 4500 seat arena with 3000 people.

Or, in the case of Maine, 4500 seats with 80 people :grinning:

 

[c00per]

I think the biggest benefit to having a space larger than a middle school gym would be recruiting with a side benefit of having a few more seats for senior center outings.

Even if the plan is a 90º court rotation and under-basket seats and capacity increases by 5%. If the lights dim while 'are you ready for this' plays and the announcer announces the name of the kid on his official and the spotlight follows him to the center of the court and he feels like he's starring in the latest NBA2K...

 

[Old_Cat_Fan]

Or, in the case of Maine, 4500 seats with 80 people :grinning:

the box score says attendance was 798. i wonder if that was a typo which should have been 79.8

 

[Ernie4three]

the box score says attendance was 798. i wonder if that was a typo which should have been 79.8

The probably included the infamous 750 person UMaine band

 

[NotDeadYet]

It probably included season ticket holders and students who didn't show up. It must be very unsatisfying to be a Maine player.

 

[UVM Hoop Cat]

edit

 

[UVM Hoop Cat]

It sucks, but I don't really think you can expect transparency. UVM has never been about that.

If there was success happening and progress being made you can guarantee there would be transparency; but given UVM has only raised a paltry sum of money and is still probably 85% off its target then no, the public isn't going to hear much about it and shouldn't expect to.

Until then, we'll probably continue to have the periodic announcement of a new "study" or formation of a "feasibility committee" and further non-action.

 

[NotDeadYet]

A committee to consider the possibility of performing a feasibility study to determine the efficacy of a work group to provide guidance in determining the parameters relating to evaluating ......

Mushroom management - feed 'em shit and keep 'em in the dark.

 

[charliemike]

I haven't been to your gym but is it feasible to rip an end off, add on a horseshoe of new and better seating and a new locker room beneath them? That would definitely be cheaper than a whole new building.

 

[catpower]

If there was success happening and progress being made you can guarantee there would be transparency; but given UVM has only raised a paltry sum of money and is still probably 85% off its target then no, the public isn't going to hear much about it and shouldn't expect to.

Until then, we'll probably continue to have the periodic announcement of a new "study" or formation of a "feasibility committee" and further non-action.

Of course, but if UVM athletics had its way, there would never even be news articles on it. That Free Press article last year on the lack of funding for the project had them fuming, because it put a lot of skeptism in the minds of its most loyal fans (the ones they had convinced they were "almost there"), while making them look bad on the fundraising trail too. That was a pretty big turning point, especially in the eyes of its fan base. Look back even on this thread. After that article, that's when even the most optimistic that it was going to get done started losing faith. They wanted people in the dark on it because it was better to sell than the truth.

 

[ball_of_rubber]

A committee to consider the possibility of performing a feasibility study to determine the efficacy of a work group to provide guidance in determining the parameters relating to evaluating ......

Mushroom management - feed 'em shit and keep 'em in the dark.

Of course, but if UVM athletics had its way, there would never even be news articles on it. That Free Press article last year on the lack of funding for the project had them fuming, because it put a lot of skeptism in the minds of its most loyal fans (the ones they had convinced they were "almost there"), while making them look bad on the fundraising trail too. That was a pretty big turning point, especially in the eyes of its fan base. Look back even on this thread. After that article, that's when even the most optimistic that it was going to get done started losing faith. They wanted people in the dark on it because it was better to sell than the truth.

Sounds like the arena situation in downtown Baltimore.

I think UVM's solution may come from the rest of the league. Personally, I'm in favor of bringing back the tournament, especially since UML is eligible next year. The reason it was moved to campus sites was to improve ticket sales and increased fan atmosphere, but I think that can be accomplished if the tournament were held in the arena of the #1 seed.

So let's look at the scenario. Let's say UVM wins the regular season, but can't host the tournament. Instead, it goes to the #2 location, could be Albany, could be Binghamton, UMBC, UNH, whomever. With the school's administration not liking that bad publicity regarding no arena happening, and usually at this level a fanbase of at least #2 and #3 travel well, think about the pissed off business community in Burlington seeing AE Tournament fans' dollars go down the road to Albany, or if Albany's fanbase drives down to Binghamton or Baltimore, all because UVM's administration can't get the arena situation taken care of. I think at that point there will be enough pressure from the local business community on the school to get something done. Maybe they'll even help out with donations.

 

[catpower]

Sounds like the arena situation in downtown Baltimore.

I think UVM's solution may come from the rest of the league. Personally, I'm in favor of bringing back the tournament, especially since UML is eligible next year. The reason it was moved to campus sites was to improve ticket sales and increased fan atmosphere, but I think that can be accomplished if the tournament were held in the arena of the #1 seed.

So let's look at the scenario. Let's say UVM wins the regular season, but can't host the tournament. Instead, it goes to the #2 location, could be Albany, could be Binghamton, UMBC, UNH, whomever. With the school's administration not liking that bad publicity regarding no arena happening, and usually at this level a fanbase of at least #2 and #3 travel well, think about the pissed off business community in Burlington seeing AE Tournament fans' dollars go down the road to Albany, or if Albany's fanbase drives down to Binghamton or Baltimore, all because UVM's administration can't get the arena situation taken care of. I think at that point there will be enough pressure from the local business community on the school to get something done. Maybe they'll even help out with donations.

Interesting take. I don't mind the home sites personally, and think that's likely here to stay, but we'll see.

Thing is though if the single site tournament came back, like I kind of mentioned previously, outside of the loyal group here, and in the stands, nobody in Burlington or around the state would know or care that the tournament is going on. It's not a sports culture driven community, and there'd really be no pressure to build one. That's more why there isn't one: people aren't giving their money because they don't see the need - and a conference tournament isn't going to change that because UVM athletics teams are a "oh that's nice" part of Burlington/Chittenden County.

Sure, businesses would like a facility that might attract more business, but you won't see them out campaigning for it unless it's a sure thing. Right now, given that the team can't even sell out games outside hosting the AE championship game, it's far from a sure thing.

 

[jfromvt]

Xx

 

[UVM Hoop Cat]

Of course, but if UVM athletics had its way, there would never even be news articles on it. That Free Press article last year on the lack of funding for the project had them fuming, because it put a lot of skeptism in the minds of its most loyal fans (the ones they had convinced they were "almost there"), while making them look bad on the fundraising trail too. That was a pretty big turning point, especially in the eyes of its fan base. Look back even on this thread. After that article, that's when even the most optimistic that it was going to get done started losing faith. They wanted people in the dark on it because it was better to sell than the truth.

Yeah, I mean in all honesty that article was obviously bad and certainly not helpful for gaining momentum from a PR perspective, and the exact amount raised should never have been printed at that amount. Not saying obviously UVM should ever mislead anyone important on the status of the project- RE: Potential Donors, Fans, Community- but disclosing that amount does nothing to help fund raising efforts. Of course, the people involved in fund raising will be pissed because it's also a direct reflection of the work they are doing- but to be fair, they have a very difficult job and tough sell. I do not envy them having that job, so if a byproduct is maybe the school will find people that can do the job better then great, or the existing people in the role use it as motivation, also great- but that's really the only positive takeaway from disclosing the $3mm raised or whatever tiny amount it was- if not then the article should never have been printed.

 

[jfromvt]

Yeah, I mean in all honesty that article was obviously bad and certainly not helpful for gaining momentum from a PR perspective, and the exact amount raised should never have been printed at that amount. Not saying obviously UVM should ever mislead anyone important on the status of the project- RE: Potential Donors, Fans, Community- but disclosing that amount does nothing to help fund raising efforts. Of course, the people involved in fund raising will be pissed because it's also a direct reflection of the work they are doing- but to be fair, they have a very difficult job and tough sell. I do not envy them having that job, so if a byproduct is maybe the school will find people that can do the job better then great, or the existing people in the role use it as motivation, also great- but that's really the only positive takeaway from disclosing the $3mm raised or whatever tiny amount it was- if not then the article should never have been printed.

I think it was appropriate because it shed light on the fact that an on-campus Arena is/was not going to happen anytime soon, despite the UVM PR spin at the time. Schulman is now saying an announcement (of some sort) is coming first half of this year. Last Spring they promised an announcement early Fall of 2016, so 6-9 months late.

Schulman wrote another state of the dept. memo in Nov, but it got buried in the Victory Club section of their website. Really had to search to find it. Seems like they would put it in a more prominent spot, or send it via an email to the season ticket holders and others.

 

[c00per]

Arena envy

 

[charliemike]

It's a nice place and gets good crowds. I imagine UMBC's arena will be similar.

$85M is a lot to pay for a space like that for just athletics though ... Especially at our level.

 

[c00per]

It's a nice place and gets good crowds. I imagine UMBC's arena will be similar.

$85M is a lot to pay for a space like that for just athletics though ... Especially at our level.

True. But it's also advertising for the rest of the school I guess. I was talking to a guy who goes to Princeton and one of his profs said enrollment at Princeton law goes up when the basketball team plays big TV games. I have no stats to back that up but it sounds plausible.