[jfromvt]

I saw that piece last month and had to laugh. Investigative journalism is when you get asked a question and fire off a single email where the university gives the same response it's given to anyone who has asked over the last 2-3 years. Great for the boomers still watching the news on TV, I suppose.

I haven't asked in a while, but I don't think that the whole try and re-energize donations in light of the soccer national title win has done much, if anything. As for the dirt patch, unless they have other reasons for it to house materials related to other projects, it's probably best to just let grass grow on it. That's what it was before the project started. It's too small to make another practice/rec field.

I guess the only other thing might be if the Vermont Green get additional investors to pump in money and want to make that pro pathway via USL's supposed new promotion/relegation setup and they need to add more capacity to meet professional standards (something I very much doubt they'd do at UVM - I'm of the belief at that point they'd go look for a new facility site, but who knows) there's not much to be done over there.

I think they've done most of the behind the scene upgrades that the athletes care about, i.e. locker rooms, training/weight rooms, conference rooms. So in my opinion, they should focus on the fan side of it - put in the new seats at Gutterson, new bleachers and expanded lobby at Patrick, spruce both up a bit, and call it a day. Probably a $10-$20M investment. The new Arena is not going to happen.

 

[catpower]

I think they've done most of the behind the scene upgrades that the athletes care about, i.e. locker rooms, training/weight rooms, conference rooms. So in my opinion, they should focus on the fan side of it - put in the new seats at Gutterson, new bleachers and expanded lobby at Patrick, spruce both up a bit, and call it a day. Probably a $10-$20M investment. The new Arena is not going to happen.

Oh yeah, and what they have done for those locker rooms for those who have gotten to see them is nice. But the average fan likely won't get that chance. I think at some point or another, we will see Gutterson get cleaned up/new seats, hopefully, and improvements to the walking around getting to your seat side of it, because that was part of the plan anyway. I'm skeptical on any major fixes to Patrick, because that's a full admission of failure, since the plan was for Patrick to be retired as an athletic facility altogether. It's not helpful to anyone to keep the charade up, but, that's university administrator/board of trustees and fundraiser logic for you.

I think I alluded to it before, but back when it became clear there was no pathway to resume construction, major donors to the project were pissed, with some threatening legal action and I think that plays a part in why they have not said the Tarrant Center is 100% dead, and have not pivoted toward making renovations to Patrick, because if they did - and this is just me speculating on the information I received some time ago - a full ditch of the project could provide some legal grounds for primary donors...at least that's how I understood the information and the implications of it. Stuff may have changed a lot between now and then, but the fact remains they ran through all the major donors money, and there are no more sources to tap that can cover the widening costs.

 

[gocats10]

Nothing says future d2 basketball program like an unrenovated patrick gym

 

[catpower]

Nothing says future d2 basketball program like an unrenovated patrick gym

You gotta get out more. Patrick Gym of course has its issues, but if you believe that's what would drop them to D2, you better say that about 65-70% of low major one-bid basketball teams too. I've seen plenty far, far shittier gyms in my day than Patrick.

 

[gocats10]

You gotta get out more. Patrick Gym of course has its issues, but if you believe that's what would drop them to D2, you better say that about 65-70% of low major one-bid basketball teams too. I've seen plenty far, far shittier gyms in my day than Patrick.

While I am sure there are worse gyms than Patrick in D1 the comment had more to do with the support the program has. Not being able to raise funds to even renovate after announcing a new facility is pretty embarrassing.

 

[UVM Hoop Cat]

UVM’s inability to build a new arena ended up being a complete blessing in disguise. With all the uncertainly/changes in college sports, it makes zero sense to push forward with that type of project. Imagine building that and we ultimately end up in a UHA situation!?.

Put in seatbacks. Maybe a scoreboard. Have a proper area for concessions. Call it a day.

In this new environment we need more $ for players than a new building, and that’s the new reality.

 

[RF1]

At this pace, it looks like new to D1 Stonehill College of the NEC might have a new basketball and hockey complex before UVM. The school just got a $15M donation from an alum that will kickstart a fundraising campaign to support the construction of a new ice hockey and basketball arena.

Link:

Renderings:

 

[catpower]

While I am sure there are worse gyms than Patrick in D1 the comment had more to do with the support the program has. Not being able to raise funds to even renovate after announcing a new facility is pretty embarrassing.

Perhaps it should be a wake-up call to UVM fans that the cultural cache the basketball program and athletics at large have is actually quite irrelevant in the state, alumni, and corporations, outside the little group of people who can afford to drop 6-7 figures to a school for things of this nature.

Thank your lucky stars that people like the late Barry Stone were around. While he was living, he donated $1 million to the arena fund in exchange for Patrick getting the "Tom Brennan Court" designation. Upon his passing, he left behind a sizeable amount of money to kickstart NIL efforts so the team you enjoy supporting can meet the standards it had set for itself in the past. Good luck finding people like that under the age of 60.

That being said, they did manage to get up to like $20-30 million in donations once the Tarrants kicked off the current plans with their big donation that accounted for around 50% of the total raised, I believe. That would have been great if that had been done in 2013, not 2018. It shouldn't be news to anyone that the current project plans are what should have been proposed from the jump, but you have Dan Fogel and Bob Corran and their delusions of grandeur to blame for that.

And, for as much as I believe the current project's bungles should be noted, they did have shovels in the ground and were working toward it all before a global pandemic hit. They then handled it very badly at the restart. Would they have handled it just as badly without a pandemic and paused the project? Perhaps, but I tend to believe there would have been more of an effort to just see it through and take the hit on debt, which wasn't going to happen in a post-pandemic world. Doesn't excuse how any parts of this were handled from 2018 onward, but, it certainly never helped.

 

[gocats10]

Perhaps it should be a wake-up call to UVM fans that the cultural cache the basketball program and athletics at large have is actually quite irrelevant in the state, alumni, and corporations, outside the little group of people who can afford to drop 6-7 figures to a school for things of this nature.

Thank your lucky stars that people like the late Barry Stone were around. While he was living, he donated $1 million to the arena fund in exchange for Patrick getting the "Tom Brennan Court" designation. Upon his passing, he left behind a sizeable amount of money to kickstart NIL efforts so the team you enjoy supporting can meet the standards it had set for itself in the past. Good luck finding people like that under the age of 60.

That being said, they did manage to get up to like $20-30 million in donations once the Tarrants kicked off the current plans with their big donation that accounted for around 50% of the total raised, I believe. That would have been great if that had been done in 2013, not 2018. It shouldn't be news to anyone that the current project plans are what should have been proposed from the jump, but you have Dan Fogel and Bob Corran and their delusions of grandeur to blame for that.

And, for as much as I believe the current project's bungles should be noted, they did have shovels in the ground and were working toward it all before a global pandemic hit. They then handled it very badly at the restart. Would they have handled it just as badly without a pandemic and paused the project? Perhaps, but I tend to believe there would have been more of an effort to just see it through and take the hit on debt, which wasn't going to happen in a post-pandemic world. Doesn't excuse how any parts of this were handled from 2018 onward, but, it certainly never helped.

Understanding that the pandemic hit at a very bad time in the project is one thing. Watching Albany and Maine completing projects post pandemic all the while we can't even get the administration to tell us what the actual plan is going forward.

The last renovation to 60+ year old Patrick gym was 35 years ago. It why I think sooner or later the realization will be that we don't have an Alfond family that can help us keep up with our peers in conference.

When you consider how poorly this project was mismanaged how many people with the means do you think are lining up with their wallets open? Especially when you consider we probably need a new biggest donor but the name of the building has already been sold.

 

[mainejeff]

Understanding that the pandemic hit at a very bad time in the project is one thing. Watching Albany and Maine completing projects post pandemic all the while we can't even get the administration to tell us what the actual plan is going forward.

The last renovation to 60+ year old Patrick gym was 35 years ago. It why I think sooner or later the realization will be that we don't have an Alfond family that can help us keep up with our peers in conference.

When you consider how poorly this project was mismanaged how many people with the means do you think are lining up with their wallets open? Especially when you consider we probably need a new biggest donor but the name of the building has already been sold.

I'm glad you mentioned this....it sounds better coming from a Catamount fan.

While Maine is very lucky to have a family of billionaires behind them.....they have also managed a very large athletic campus project very admirably over the past 5 years. While the centerpiece is still to come....they have had to deal with cost increases and wavering timelines due to weather and funding constraints. Maine also has some secondary donors that might be considered "big fish" at Vermont or a number of other AE schools.....the Morse family has given about $15 million including $10 million for naming rights to the new hoops facility that will bear their name. They recently received a $16 million gift from the Labat family estate....they get solid support from the Corporate/business community including $7 million from New Balance to help fund the new soccer & track facility. Probably due to numerous factors....the State of Maine overall seems to support the university more than the states off Vermont or New Hampshire. I would also add that even after Vermont dropped football (I know ancient history) and more recently baseball and softball.....still seems like it is a struggle to garner support for the Big 3 of basketball, hockey and soccer. Vermont administration, alums, donors and government all need to step up and realize that UVM is one of the biggest assets that the state has....and the athletic dept. is the front porch.

 

[VT Cats Fan]

I'm glad you mentioned this....it sounds better coming from a Catamount fan.

While Maine is very lucky to have a family of billionaires behind them.....they have also managed a very large athletic campus project very admirably over the past 5 years. While the centerpiece is still to come....they have had to deal with cost increases and wavering timelines due to weather and funding constraints. Maine also has some secondary donors that might be considered "big fish" at Vermont or a number of other AE schools.....the Morse family has given about $15 million including $10 million for naming rights to the new hoops facility that will bear their name. They recently received a $16 million gift from the Labat family estate....they get solid support from the Corporate/business community including $7 million from New Balance to help fund the new soccer & track facility. Probably due to numerous factors....the State of Maine overall seems to support the university more than the states off Vermont or New Hampshire. I would also add that even after Vermont dropped football (I know ancient history) and more recently baseball and softball.....still seems like it is a struggle to garner support for the Big 3 of basketball, hockey and soccer. Vermont administration, alums, donors and government all need to step up and realize that UVM is one of the biggest assets that the state has....and the athletic dept. is the front porch.

I appreciate this, but you're preaching to the choir here. Those of us that hang out here do what we can (see, the UVM NIL thread) but as you alluded to, there just aren't m(any) of us who can make a sizable enough of a donation to move the needle on the arena project (who don't already have our panties in a bunch).

 

[mainejeff]

I appreciate this, but you're preaching to the choir here. Those of us that hang out here do what we can (see, the UVM NIL thread) but as you alluded to, there just aren't m(any) of us who can make a sizable enough of a donation to move the needle on the arena project (who don't already have our panties in a bunch).

I feel like the State of Vermont needs to partner with private interests to build a new arena in Burlington. There has to be enough money, interest and the possibility of increased revenue to the city and state via room, dining, sales, etc taxes that come with concerts, sporting events, conventions, trade shows, etc. If Bangor, Maine can do it........Burlington, VT should be able to as well.

 

[catpower]

I'm glad you mentioned this....it sounds better coming from a Catamount fan.

While Maine is very lucky to have a family of billionaires behind them.....they have also managed a very large athletic campus project very admirably over the past 5 years. While the centerpiece is still to come....they have had to deal with cost increases and wavering timelines due to weather and funding constraints. Maine also has some secondary donors that might be considered "big fish" at Vermont or a number of other AE schools.....the Morse family has given about $15 million including $10 million for naming rights to the new hoops facility that will bear their name. They recently received a $16 million gift from the Labat family estate....they get solid support from the Corporate/business community including $7 million from New Balance to help fund the new soccer & track facility. Probably due to numerous factors....the State of Maine overall seems to support the university more than the states off Vermont or New Hampshire. I would also add that even after Vermont dropped football (I know ancient history) and more recently baseball and softball.....still seems like it is a struggle to garner support for the Big 3 of basketball, hockey and soccer. Vermont administration, alums, donors and government all need to step up and realize that UVM is one of the biggest assets that the state has....and the athletic dept. is the front porch.

I feel like a broken record, but sports simply are not in the cultural fabric of the UVM experience. It won't magically start now. There are plenty of very, very rich people who went to UVM. They donate to the school, giving money for academic buildings, research centers, or the medical school. That's more important to those people and reflective of their experience at UVM, and really, a much more worthy cause to give to. They could give two shits about the "front porch" theory, which is, in my opinion a pretty flawed theory to begin with. Even if they did enjoy going to a sporting event it was simply a leisure activity and nothing that shaped their college experience.

UVM athletics is stuck with hoping some of its aging fans who may have amassed multi-millions in assets leave stuff behind for them. That's literally the only way they were able to kickstart NIL. They got all they were gonna get from the Tarrants. The state government doesn't care; the relationship between the legislature and UVM is generally a bit adversarial, as UVM doesn't operate traditionally in a way a major state school does with funding. There are intricacies that I can't really explain nor want to put much effort into, but, don't hold your breath these legislators are going to give a shit how sports teams do.

And, I do think it's important to note that the rotten reputation the athletic department has acquired in recent years (which is still subject to civil litigation over the mishandling of sexual assault allegations) playing a role in the alumni, campus community and broader Vermont community not wanting to thrust their support behind a facility for the team that was at the heart of those allegations, either.

 

[catpower]

I feel like the State of Vermont needs two partner with private interests to build a new arena in Burlington. There has to be enough money, interest and the possibility of increased revenue to the city and state via room, dining, sales, etc taxes that come with concerts, sporting events, conventions, trade shows, etc. If Bangor, Maine can do it........Burlington, VT should be able to as well.

We're in a flat circle territory now. People were saying this back in 2014. They tried that plan years ago, with a now-condemned Memorial Auditorium in Burlington, and it went nowhere because the parcel is too small to be a successful, modern D1 college basketball venue. Furthermore, the ex-mayor of the city kept trying to find private funds to privatize part of the facility and couldn't find a single taker. Similarly, the South Burlington revitalization project included plans to add a facility, and that got knocked off pretty quickly as there was not an appetite for it. Even if it were to get reintroduced and say, even come in front of the taxpayers, I'm very confident it would be voted down. The city of Burlington is in a $14 million budget crisis left by the previous mayor for the new one elected a year ago to manage. While there's a clear need for a venue for concerts and things of that nature in Burlington, the last thing the city needs to do is to try and accommodate the university with a sports facility, which is not helping matters with the affordability and housing crisis in the city by not building enough on-campus housing, among other things. Also, even when those plans were discussed, it was under the guise that they'd invite UVM to be a tenant...UVM has been steadfast that their facility should be on campus, and they have their sound logic for that, as they, too, are in need of a venue that can host university events.

 

[mainejeff]

I feel like a broken record, but sports simply are not in the cultural fabric of the UVM experience. It won't magically start now. There are plenty of very, very rich people who went to UVM. They donate to the school, giving money for academic buildings, research centers, or the medical school. That's more important to those people and reflective of their experience at UVM, and really, a much more worthy cause to give to. They could give two shits about the "front porch" theory, which is, in my opinion a pretty flawed theory to begin with. Even if they did enjoy going to a sporting event it was simply a leisure activity and nothing that shaped their college experience.

UVM athletics is stuck with hoping some of its aging fans who may have amassed multi-millions in assets leave stuff behind for them. That's literally the only way they were able to kickstart NIL. They got all they were gonna get from the Tarrants. The state government doesn't care; the relationship between the legislature and UVM is generally a bit adversarial, as UVM doesn't operate traditionally in a way a major state school does with funding. There are intricacies that I can't really explain nor want to put much effort into, but, don't hold your breath these legislators are going to give a shit how sports teams do.

And, I do think it's important to note that the rotten reputation the athletic department has acquired in recent years (which is still subject to civil litigation over the mishandling of sexual assault allegations) playing a role in the alumni, campus community and broader Vermont community not wanting to thrust their support behind a facility for the team that was at the heart of those allegations, either.

While you make good points about donor academic interests.....and you may be spot on about Vermont's state government and overall population sentiments....sounds a bit defeatist and defiant with the "things will never change" attitude. I get that your experience and knowledge of Vermont's past and present might limit your expectations but for Vermont's sake.....I hope there are people out there that have a bit more positive and progressive outlook on Vermont's athletic future.

 

[mainejeff]

We're in a flat circle territory now. People were saying this back in 2014. They tried that plan years ago, with a now-condemned Memorial Auditorium in Burlington, and it went nowhere because the parcel is too small to be a successful, modern D1 college basketball venue. Furthermore, the ex-mayor of the city kept trying to find private funds to privatize part of the facility and couldn't find a single taker. Similarly, the South Burlington revitalization project included plans to add a facility, and that got knocked off pretty quickly as there was not an appetite for it. Even if it were to get reintroduced and say, even come in front of the taxpayers, I'm very confident it would be voted down. The city of Burlington is in a $14 million budget crisis left by the previous mayor for the new one elected a year ago to manage. While there's a clear need for a venue for concerts and things of that nature in Burlington, the last thing the city needs to do is to try and accommodate the university with a sports facility, which is not helping matters with the affordability and housing crisis in the city by not building enough on-campus housing, among other things. Also, even when those plans were discussed, it was under the guise that they'd invite UVM to be a tenant...UVM has been steadfast that their facility should be on campus, and they have their sound logic for that, as they, too, are in need of a venue that can host university events.

Yikes....sounds like you better enjoy this era of Vermont basketball to its fullest then....the future sounds bleak.

 

[catpower]

While you make good points about donor academic interests.....and you may be spot on about Vermont's state government and overall population sentiments....sounds a bit defeatist and defiant with the "things will never change" attitude. I get that your experience and knowledge of Vermont's past and present might limit your expectations but for Vermont's sake.....I hope there are people out there that have a bit more positive and progressive outlook on Vermont's athletic future.

New leadership in the athletic department (with lots of external, non-UVM only experience in D1 athletics) would go a long way in my book. But, even as there is a new school president, I'm not holding my breath that she'll be that interested in changing the status quo, even with all the embarrassment Shulman has caused the department in the last 5 years. I'll be pleasantly surprised if Tromp (the new president, unfortunate last name) does.

The ex-president eventually learned that looking to force a change at the top of the athletic department it was a battle he couldn't pick or win in the aftermath of the basketball scandal, as Schulman has backers on the board. Granted, ex-president Garimella was not a well-liked figure by the board and campus (deserved reputation on many accounts), but I am skeptical that Tromp will be afforded the ability to make changes either.

 

[Catamanica]

Do people care about UVM athletics? They do and they don't. Five or six thousand showed up for the soccer parade, so that's a sign. Yes, the soccer team won a national championship. Hard to believe, really, but true. How'd they do it? A few very focused, connected people pushed the right buttons and made it happen. So if that can happen, I think a new facility should be possible, which is for the communtiy as much as the school. The people in power have to stop getting in the way and assist in it becoming a reality.

 

[catpower]

Nobody is "getting in the way." The board of trustees is all on board; the president (the last two for this current plan, and I'm certain the new one), plus whoever the new provost will be, are on board. If you're trying to pin this on a few Deans who are pissed with how everything went down, or your stereotypical stuffy academics (who don't have decision making power), or legislators and government official swho have never once stood in the way of the project, that's pretty silly. To the latter, like I said, they're just not going to throw $40 million in state funds toward it. That's not how Vermont is wired, and frankly that is not where this state needs to be spending. It's just that in 2022 or 2023, they needed $40 million to restart. That number is probably $60-70 million now. Everyone always knew the deal. The school had to raise near half the money, and institutional funds would kick in the rest. It happened, they botched it, and a pandemic happened to make it worse. You're far better off asking for accountability for those who did a poor job steering the project and getting some new people in to re-assess and restart something.

What the soccer braintrust did was wonderful, but it did not cost $70 million to do. Not even remotely close.

 

[UVM Hoop Cat]

Just seeing this but appears Rich Tarrant has passed away. Thoughts & prayers to all family & friends and a loss to the State of VT.

Vermont Business Heavyweight Rich Tarrant Dies at 83 | Seven Days

Tarrant founded the company that became IDX Systems, faced off against Bernie Sanders in a race for U.S. Senate and donated tens of millions to Vermont causes.

www.sevendaysvt.com