nice headline

I cant imagine the league not reviewing the Torres play and telling binghamton you do it or we will do it.

 

Holy $hit- how can he not be suspended yet?

Those fouls were terrible- reminds me of this video I saw earlier:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embedded&v=K6v-bW6wxoY

Still don't think either were nearly as bad as Barnes/Hehn. Barnes smashed Hehn's head on the court from behind- could have done some serious neck/spinal/head injuries- and Hehn DID lose teeth. Not as bad as Tunji Awojobi head butting Erik Nelson either- but these fouls by Dickinson are still bad and worthy of suspending him now before it gets out of hand.

 

Probably not as bad as Nelson.

I have the Barnes on Hehn on tape. They got tangled up going after a loose ball, Barnes fell on Hehn and has they were going down shoved his head from behind into the hardwood... It was very dirty, no doubt, but to me this was even worse because there was no provocation (not that Hehn deserved or provoked, but there was history/tussling going on, and the two went down together). This was just straight up a guy a foot shorter than Dickinson not looking, no history, no chippiness, getting smashed in the face... Horrible. And he's a damn repeat offender and no one has done anything yet.

 

Someone shouldn't be playing in Catonsville tommorow night.

 

Just read the coverage of this incident in the Binghamton Press & Sun. The sports reporter who wrote the article totally glosses over the entire incident. It seems that denial by "the powers that be" is the name of the game in Binhamton right now. A couple of commenters and Bing fans get it right in the comments section. I really want to know what kind of discussion the coaching staff had with Dickinson after the Canisius incident. If there was little to none then I can see Ben feeling empowered to think his thug behavior is wanted. This is the last thing a program reeling from scandal needs. Torres' injury could have been catastrophic. I know a kid who got hit in the head with a sucker punch when he was a senior in high school. He hasn't been quite right since.

 

Is it OK to call Dickinson a thug?

 

i dont know if i would call him a thug yet because i dont know him personally. I would say his is very immature and well on his way to earning a reputation. If his behaviosr doesnt change he will end up learning the hard way which means thrown of team, broken jaw, missing teeth or broken i socket. I cant imagine everyone giving him a free pass for doing this stuff. I would like to see him try that on dallis joyner or Dom Morris. i have a funny feeling he would think twice in that situation.

 

What a freaking disgrace...ban him from the league forever. It's worse then I thought it would be, both vids.

WOW!

 

I'd like to hear a Bing fan's POV on this...

These fouls are even worse than the Gilliam-Wolfe situation, where while Wolfe flopped a good bit, Gilliam did have bad intentions.

That foul on Torres can't happen. No excuses.

 

The two or three Bing fans that still care are probably face palming as I type.

Urban Barrister will say the kid is misunderstood and should get the proper support he needs to deal with his anger issues.

Anybody who plays football on a basketball court shouldn't have the right to play anymore- that's what I say.

 

This was posted in the comments section of the Binghamton newspaper -

:Mr. Worthy writes...

"With Hartford leading 58-44 and 5:22 remaining on the clock, Torres was knocked to the floor while Hartford had possession. He jumped up off the hardwood and charged toward Dickinson. Dickinson shoved Torres in the face, and some jostling took place between the players from both teams who were on the court before they were separated by officials."

You got it partly right, Mr, Worthy. It would've been a much better description to mention that Dickinson actually punched Torres in the face on a screen play. This is what caused Torres to be "knocked to the floor". Terres was wrong for jumping up and getting in Dickinson's face, and thus was assessed his foul. But Torres didn't punch anyone and was able to stay in the game. The referees checked the monitor and saw the same thing that all us fans saw...that Dickinson intentionally and flagrantly punched Torres...and that's why Dickinson was ejected. I'm surprised you didn't mention these details, since you were there.

The greater story is that Dickinson is getting a reputation around the American East (and college basketball in general) as a dirty player who likes to throw elbows and is easily drawn into confrontations. I've been to most of BU's home games and he's been involved in elbowing "incidents" in almost every game. He leads the team in personal fouls (by far), has fouled out of 3 games and been ejected from another game for a flagrant foul. It's too bad, because Dickinson is arguably the best offensive player that BU has (except possibly Mansell, at times). It's time for the coaches to address this building problem because this kid has 3 more years to turn this reputation around."

This Bing fan has a pretty good take on it - couple other posters agreed.

 

What the F*CK is going on at Binghamton?!?!??! Those fouls were both ridiculous and quite a bit more vicious than I had originally thought. How in God's name has he not been suspended yet? I really thought Bing had turned the corner and made a commitment to recreating an image...by not doing absolutely anything as of yet about this kid they obviously don't seem to be as committed as I thought. That is insane! From tackling somebody from behind into a basketball goal to nearly decapitating an unsuspecting kid intentionally, this kid needs to understand that crap isn't tolerated...period.

If Macon knew about the viciousness & has chosen not to do anything or hasn't even discussed it with the AD, he should be canned immediately. If Bing wants to be taken seriously as a school that is committed to athletics being done the right way, some action has to be taken.

Man, I still can't believe nothing has been done about this crap yet.

 

As I said, I had left the Events Center before this happened (didn't care to finish out watching another blowout loss). Much worse than I had expected it to be.

With Binghamton being as bad as they are, they might as well suspend Dickinson for the rest of the year. They aren't going to be winning anything (obviously). I mean, seriously, this can not and should not happen again. I'm almost embarrassed at this point. It's sadder, to me, that they can't LOSE games and be 100% clean than win with "The Thugs". Do I think Dickinson is a "thug"? No, but extremely immature and undisciplined? Yes, certainly. This incident, no...both of these incidents, when combined...can not go unpunished.

Wow...don't think I'll be paying for a ticket the rest of this season. Sorry, I had supported them through these losses, which I think most real fans would do...but I will not support this. Macon, who I had said deserved time, must go if this situation is not handled with some kind of suspension.

EDIT: worded that wrong...either of the incidents are worthy of suspension...when combined, obviously an even lengthier time needs to be considered.

 

To clarify (in case it isn't already clear): We don't know that Dickinson hasn't been suspended by Binghamton. This is why we were careful to not say that he hasn't been suspended by Binghamton. We also can't assume that Dickinson sitting out tomorrow means he's been suspended by Binghamton. There is a NCAA-mandated suspension for a Flagrant II foul, and the foul in the Hartford game was a Flagrant II, so unless there's some loophole I don't know about, Dickinson has to sit tomorrow. Absent a public statement or a leak from a reliable source - and at the moment I don't know anything about Dickinson's status that isn't in the op-ed - we won't know for sure until the New Hampshire game.

 

This is true. We shall see.

 

You can say that all you want to...but everywhere I used to work and at almost every school, they issue a release when a player is suspended. Considering this has gotten at least a tiny bit of coverage in the Bing paper, Dickinson has become a minor issue at the very least and would warrant some sort of school informational release. Especially given the cloud that Bing is trying to come out from under...if they had suspended him for that stuff, wouldn't it stand to reason that they would want to come out and show how they weren't going to tolerate anything?

I just don't buy it...I find it awfully hard to believe that there is much of a possibility at all that they would have done something and NOT issued some sort of statement.

Oh, and seeing as this is about Bing and Dickinson, do we really have to try and figure out whether it's worse than another situation??!? Good god, why do all these threads have to turn into some sort of pissing contest. Start a new thread about Hehn if you want & compare it to this.

 

You can say that all you want to...but everywhere I used to work and at almost every school, they issue a release when a player is suspended. Considering this has gotten at least a tiny bit of coverage in the Bing paper, Dickinson has become a minor issue at the very least and would warrant some sort of school informational release. Especially given the cloud that Bing is trying to come out from under...if they had suspended him for that stuff, wouldn't it stand to reason that they would want to come out and show how they weren't going to tolerate anything?

I just don't buy it...I find it awfully hard to believe that there is much of a possibility at all that they would have done something and NOT issued some sort of statement.

I'm not sure you're reading my tone right (or if you're even responding to me here). I'm just issuing a disclaimer. I don't know for certain that he hasn't been suspended, so I'm not going to say that I know for a fact he hasn't been suspended. That's all I'm saying. Given the circumstances, the fact that there was zero overt punishment for the first incident, and Binghamton's track record, I'm not optimistic.

Obviously Sam and I both think an incident of this magnitude warrants a major PUBLIC suspension - otherwise there would be no op-ed.

As for the Binghamton press coverage, well, do you think this is a sufficient description of the events?

With Hartford leading 58-44 and 5:22 remaining on the clock, Torres was knocked to the floor while Hartford had possession. He jumped up off the hardwood and charged toward Dickinson. Dickinson shoved Torres in the face, and some jostling took place between the players from both teams who were on the court before they were separated by officials.

Dickinson was assessed a "flagrant 2" and an automatic ejection. Dickinson, who was also ejected from a game Dec. 28 at Canisius for a flagrant foul, stripped his jersey off as he left the court. The officials assessed Torres an "unsporting technical foul" and a personal foul, but he remained on the floor.

Because I don't.

 

Sam How dare you throw Tommy Brenton's name in that group of plays. Show me one clip of a dirty play . Is flopping dirty as in these plays?

 

Holy crap...really? This thread is going to morph into one about Hehn/Barnes...or Awojobi/Nelson?

We really need to have a pissing contest about what obnoxious, vicious foul is worse?

Anyway, FFTS or anyone with any other info out of Bing, I look forward to following that RELEVANT situation. Thanks.

 

FFTS was the one that originally brought up the previous fouls- which the Dickinson fouls don't even come close to being comparable with Awojobi/ Nelson level of severe recklessness/ collateral damage.

So that's why it was brought up. The author made a mistake.

 

AH - wasn't really addressed at you...just kind of expressed in general. I cannot imagine them not issuing a statement as soon as they do something that's all.

And yeah, looks like the ostrich is alive & well at the Press in Bing.

 

And yeah, looks like the ostrich is alive & well at the Press in Bing.

Should we be expecting a Pete Thamel story in the NYT?

 

In conclusion, Dickinson should be suspended, possibly for a long period of time.

/end scene.

ha, everyone sounds ridiculous. :serious:

 

A flagrant 2 is not an automatic suspension for the next game. A player must be deemed to have been fighting for the automatic suspension to take place. If Dickinson was thrown out for a flagrant 2 but was not specifically thrown out for fighting there is no mandatory suspension the next game. Danny Carter for SB was thrown out of the Indiana game for a flagrant 2 when he hit an Indiana player in the balls. He missed the next game because Coach Piekiell sat him. It was not due to any NCAA rule.

 

Do you have the rulebook?

That's a serious question - I've been looking for the section of the rules that covers this but I've only been able to find sections that paraphrase it. I want the actual text.

 

Funny to see several of you so worried about what I think. I'm sure you will be devastated to learn the feeling is not mutual.

For the record, the Torres shot did look pretty bad to me, but it also happened in an instant, so I have a hard time believing it was in any way pre-meditated (and, thus, as bad as some of you have made it out to be). The other one didn't strike me as bad at all. Dickinson looked like he was trying to hug the guy before he jumped to keep him from taking the shot (and send him to the line instead) and then they both went down in the process. I didn't see him throwing the other guy to the floor in any way, but all I can go on is that crappy clip. Maybe it looked worse in person. I don't know.

Bottom line: A lot of you seem hellbent on finding fault in everything that happens in Vestal. I'm not gonna try and stop you. Have at it - and have fun. I'm gonna continue to focus on the good stuff that happens at Bing and throughout the league.

 

Well- not spot on, but I was in the ballpark. This post did not disappoint.

 

The rules terminology were changed last year but the book is not updated until next year. So you will not find the terminology flagrant 1 or flagrant 2 in the rule book, I found an explanation of the new terminology which is below.

Here is a link to the pdf of the current rule book http://www.ncaapublications.com/productdownloads/BR11.pdf

Fouls are covered in Rule 10 starting on page 123

The rules are very specific about the penalty for fighting - fight once miss the next game. Fight a second time and your season is over. The question is - did the refs actually state specifically that the ejection was due to "fighting?"

This comes from the NCAA website last year under rule changes - this explains better than i do up above

Fouls language
The panel also approved a change in nomenclature on fouls that are deemed more severe than a “common” foul in both men’s and women’s basketball. The terms “Flagrant 1” and “Flagrant 2” will now be used. A Flagrant 1 foul takes the place of an intentional foul and the Flagrant 2 foul replaces the previous flagrant foul.

An example of a Flagrant 1 foul would be when a player swings an elbow and makes illegal, non-excessive contact with an opponent above the shoulders. The team whose player was struck would receive two free throws and possession of the ball. Previously, this type of foul was called an intentional foul. The committee wanted to move away from the word “intentional,” because a player’s intent was never the point to the rule.

An example of a Flagrant 2 foul would be when a player swings an elbow excessively and makes contact with an opponent above the shoulders. In this case, the player who threw the elbow would be ejected from the game, and the other team would receive two free throws and the ball.

 

Salty, thanks. This is exactly what I was looking for.

From Rule 4, Section 26:

Section 26. Fighting
Art. 1. A fight is a flagrant foul.

Art. 2. A fight is a confrontation involving one or more players, coaches or other team personnel wherein (but not limited to) a fist, hand, arm, foot, knee or leg is used to combatively strike the other individual.

Art. 3. When during a confrontation, an individual attempts to strike another individual with any of the actions defined in Art. 2, whether there is contact is irrelevant. The perpetrator shall be deemed to have been involved in a fight.

Article 2 is the important part. Dickinson clearly strikes Torres square in the face. Either it was intentional, in which case it is almost certainly deemed "combative," or it is inadvertent. The fact that a Flagrant II was assessed is enough evidence to conclude that it was intentional.

If you accept the position that Dickinson striking Torres falls within the parameters of Rule 4, Section 26, Article 2, then this is deemed a fight and Dickinson is suspended as per Rule 10, Section 7, Article 2.

 

FFTS, seriously what is up with this? i am pretty sure tommy brenton has no business being mentioned in this article. Can you please direct me to a game in which tommy brenton has ever done anything dirty.this must have been an away game considering i have consistantly seen all home games and have seen nothing of the sort. Flopping on a charge call and creating contact and than exagerating it is not dirty.

"Several America East coaches who spoke to One-Bid Wonders voiced serious concerns over Dickinson’s unchecked play leading to serious injuries down the road. Frankly, I’ve never seen any player act in the manner Dickinson has – not Jose Juan Barea, not Blagoj Janev, not Marcus Barnes or Tommy Brenton. None have ever come close."

 

I don't think Brenton belongs in the discussion with the others. The point of including TB was because many fans make a big deal about his play - many people have painted him as previously the "dirtiest player in the league" and the point of including him was to state that, "hey, you guys think Brenton is bad??? well he's not even in the same stratosphere as Dickinson."

It isn't a condemnation of Brenton (whom I think is physical, chippy and gets under peoples skin as opposed to simply being "dirty" like Barnes, Barea and Janev. But those four have been widly mentioned as the dirtiest players during their respective eras, and the point is to say that none of them were as dirty as Dickinson has been... not even close.

 

opcorn:

 

I actually don't have a huge problem with the earlier season foul, denying the easy layup. It's intentional or flagrant or whatever they're calling it today. He didn't drag the guy to the floor or throw him. It's a hard flagrant foul, no doubt.

The second one... good god, what the hell are you doing? Hedging with a forearm shiver to the face? Absolutely dirty, and suspension-worthy. "It happened quick" isn't and excuse. Hell "he was just trying to gain momentum back into position, pushing off of his face", is the only "rationale", and that's some pretty good home-brewed weak-sauce if you try and explain it that way.

 

I didn't realize Torres has 4 technical fouls this season.

 

I made a reference to this after the Hartford at UA game earlier in the season. Torres can get frustrated and out of control as well, he got T'd up in the UA game if memory serves for an out of control head shot I believe on Black. However, that does not excuse Dickinson in any way shape or form...

 

n/m

 

To get this back on track, we are going on four days removed from the dirtiest foul the league has seen in some time, from a player who has become a repeat offender (several people from inside the Hartford program have stated that they could see Dickinson doing something completely out of line from a mile away, as apparently he was getting more and more out of control as the game spiraled away from Bingo), has never been disciplined, and continues to go further and further across the line, and Macon, Binghamton, and the America East have yet to even acknowledge that something that was not ok even happened in the game, let alone discipline Dickinson...

I hate to say it, but I get the impression the America East would rather look the other way with Binghamton - the impression I get is that the league wishes Bingo wasn't in such a terrible situation and just wants to ignore whats going on as long as it can... and that the powers that be at Binghamton have no interest in disciplining any of their own either... I hope I'm wrong, but I've been getting that impression very strongly the more I talk to people close to the situation...

 

I think people here are getting restless because they talk about AE basketball frequently. Reality is that Binghamton doesn't play again until tonight, and most schools do not put out press releases announcing that they are benching or even suspending a player -- it tends to be a fact that emerges just before gametime.

I don't really know at what point the league steps in to situations like this, but even if they don't, my opinion is that it is in Dickinson's best long-term interest to sit out a few games and I'll be disappointed in the event Macon goes on with business as usual.