[kflo]

dp.

 

[kflo]

again, the lakers were the favorites in part because of malone and payton, and malone didn't play and payton was simply horrendous in every way. they were killed on the boards, horrible on defense (shaq blocked 3 shots in 5 games), everyone not named shaq shot terrible (kobe's ts% was 46%, everyone else not named shaq shot 42%). kobe was bad but it was a group effort or lack thereof.

 

[smrtguy]

Those are some really interesting numbers to look at. I knew that he struggled in that series with the Pistons defense, but I didn't know it was to that degree. Looks like pretty much a draw. In that Lebron's stats are better slightly, and Kobe's team got the series to 5 games.

Why isn't both played equally bad a voting option?

Wasn't Kobe 22 in that finals too just like Bron?

No, Kobe was 25 years old.

And it was his 4th straight Finals. No reason to be nervous or lose control. He had won 3 straight, and had 3 hall of famers on his team. Those who say LBJ's performance was worse have some serious hate issues.

 

[alex]

Those are some really interesting numbers to look at. I knew that he struggled in that series with the Pistons defense, but I didn't know it was to that degree. Looks like pretty much a draw. In that Lebron's stats are better slightly, and Kobe's team got the series to 5 games.

Why isn't both played equally bad a voting option?

Wasn't Kobe 22 in that finals too just like Bron?

Bryant was nearly 26 and a grizzled playoff and Finals veteran.

Bryant's performance was worse, although that Lakers team was unbelievabley overrated. Malone didn't play much (he wouldn't of mattered much, Detroit was a friggen buzzsaw), Payton was old and ineffective on defense, Bryant didn't pass, and Shaq was gettin older, although he was still an awesome force. In that series, the best two players were playin for LA, while the next five were all Pistons.

Despite what I've just said, Bryant's inexplicable selfishness self-destructed his team. They could've won maybe not the entire series, but that would not've been a near-sweep (it was a forty foot buzzer beater in game two from becomin one) had he worked together with Shaq.

An underrated aspect in this debate is the inexperience of LBJ and, as I mentioned, the age and experience of Bryant. That's not a full excuse, since just last year DW carried the Heat, but he was twenty-four, with two years of prior playoffs and an NCAA Final Four. James made it to the playoffs last year, but before that, he played in high school--a far cry from one of the biggest stages in sports.

 

[Drewbs]

They both played miserably, but Kobe was easily worse. Kobe played selfishly and right into the hands of the Pistons. Lebron on the other hand, while defended well, didn't try to go one on five the entire series. At least he can blame the fact that he can't really shoot. Kobe on the other hand, doesn't have that excuse.

 

[Mateo]

No, Kobe was 25 years old.

And it was his 4th straight Finals. No reason to be nervous or lose control. He had won 3 straight, and had 3 hall of famers on his team. Those who say LBJ's performance was worse have some serious hate issues.

It wasn't Kobe's 4th straight finals.

 

[smrtguy]

Kobe shot 45.6 TS%.

Thats pretty bad...but no where close to Lebron's 38.7 TS%.

Absolutely, stunningly terrible.

Where can I get total shooting percentages?

Also, how much of a factor in those numbers was LBJ's free throw % ? We all know Kobe is money from the stripe.

 

[smrtguy]

It wasn't Kobe's 4th straight finals.

My bad. His 4th Finals. 2000, 2001, 2002, 2004. Pretty close to 4 straight.

 

[hobojoe]

again, the lakers were the favorites in part because of malone and payton, and malone didn't play and payton was simply horrendous in every way. they were killed on the boards, horrible on defense (shaq blocked 3 shots in 5 games), everyone not named shaq shot terrible (kobe's ts% was 46%, everyone else not named shaq shot 42%). kobe was bad but it was a group effort or lack thereof.

But Kobe was the one who continued to shoot when he wasn't making anything and had one of the most dominant players ever playing great offensively. You can't blame the rest of the guys for not shooting well, you can't help it that your open shots don't go in. What you can help is not shooting 25+ times a game and repeatedly taking hard, contested, heat-check type shots early in the shot clock when they're just not falling. Shaq should've touched the ball every single possession, but he wasn't because of Kobe.

 

[smrtguy]

Can we compare Kobe's first Finals with LeBron's first Finals?

Kobe: 15.6 ppg, 4.2 apg, 4.6 rpg, 36.7% shooting. That is absolutely horrible.

 

[kflo]

Can we compare Kobe's first Finals with LeBron's first Finals?

Kobe: 15.6 ppg, 4.2 apg, 4.6 rpg, 36.7% shooting. That is absolutely horrible.

again, he played 9 mins in game 2, missed game 3, and played hurt the rest of the series.

 

[cgcatsfan]

Lebron had more assists and rebounds and only a fraction of a point less despite averaging 5 minutes less per game. He was up against some of the most unbelievable defense I've seen in a long time.

Kobe's team was plagued by "politics" and internal struggles at the time and both he and the team played accordingly.

I think it's funny that 2 great players that average over 21 PPG in the finals are being compared in a "who played worse" poll, but I did vote for Kobe because of the two, I feel he could have done more about his situation.

It's not like Duncan and Ginobli were going to go sit down. :biggrin:

 

[HKF]

Detroit was allowed to play football with the Lakers in that series for some reason. However, once Malone went down the Lakers were rotating Medvedenko and Brian Cook at the PF spot. They were getting demolished on the boards. For all the keep going to Shaq garbage, they did that, and they were still losing after 3 quarters in every single game. Shaq was getting his (which was probably the game plan) but no one else did anything. Even a prime Shaq (which he wasn't), you can let score all the points, but he won't beat you like that, because of his bad free throw shooting.

 

[Eternal]

Detroit was allowed to play football with the Lakers in that series for some reason. However, once Malone went down the Lakers were rotating Medvedenko and Brian Cook at the PF spot. They were getting demolished on the boards. For all the keep going to Shaq garbage, they did that, and they were still losing after 3 quarters in every single game. Shaq was getting his (which was probably the game plan) but no one else did anything. Even a prime Shaq (which he wasn't), you can let score all the points, but he won't beat you like that, because of his bad free throw shooting.

Which is why Malone was so huge for the team. He was the heart and soul of that Lakers team that year. Series would've been totally different IMO if Malone wasn't out the whole Finals. Too bad he ended his career that way. =\

 

[HallOfFamer]

again, he played 9 mins in game 2, missed game 3, and played hurt the rest of the series.

and still had an amazing game 4 at Conseco. With Shaq fouled out in OT, he carried the Lakers over the Pacers and gave them the 3-1 lead. I thought it was one of the more memorable Finals performances.

 

[hobojoe]

Detroit was allowed to play football with the Lakers in that series for some reason. However, once Malone went down the Lakers were rotating Medvedenko and Brian Cook at the PF spot. They were getting demolished on the boards. For all the keep going to Shaq garbage, they did that, and they were still losing after 3 quarters in every single game. Shaq was getting his (which was probably the game plan) but no one else did anything. Even a prime Shaq (which he wasn't), you can let score all the points, but he won't beat you like that, because of his bad free throw shooting.

There's a difference between Shaq getting his shots and running the offense through Shaq. He was getting his shots because he was so damn unstoppable in that series against the much smaller Pistons, nearly every time he touched it something good happen. The offense was not being run through him, Kobe was dominating the ball and Shaq wasn't touching the ball every possession.

 

[f22egl]

I voted for Lebron by accident, if the mods would change my vote to Kobe.

 

[HKF]

I understand that he was unstoppable, but in the course of every single game, even with him dominating it had no effect on the score. The Lakers still got down big in every game because you can't ride Shaq offensively like that for 40+ minutes. The Lakers were giving up points to the Pistons in every single game. In fact, the Laker D was so bad, the Pistons a team notorious for scoring in the 80's, was scoring in the 100's against them. I mean Shaq only had 3 blocks in five games. Couple that with Medvedenko and Cook playing over 40+ minutes combined and it's no shock the Lakers lost. That was a four man team if I ever saw one. Payton was finished, so the fourth man was Derek Fisher.

 

[SeaNet]

That series was probably decided by Kobe's failure to play good team ball.This series was decided by the fact that one team was a hell of a lot better than the other and was able to focus so heavily on stopping the one great player Cleveland had.Observers almost unanimously regarded that Lakers team to have greatly superior talent,but it was done it by the egos of it's stars.

That's pretty much all that needs to be said on this topic.

 

[Eternal]

That series was probably decided by Kobe's failure to play good team ball.This series was decided by the fact that one team was a hell of a lot better than the other and was able to focus so heavily on stopping the one great player Cleveland had.Observers almost unanimously regarded that Lakers team to have greatly superior talent,but it was done it by the egos of it's stars.

I don't know if the Lakers had greatly superior talent.... it was Shaq and Kobe, with a declining and useless Payton, against a great Pistons team, who also had a great bench.

Not to mention the Lakers had a HUGE hole to fill in their PF spot, with the likes of Brian Cook and Slava.... and had to adjust on the fly with those two combined getting 40+ minutes.

Did Kobe hurt the team that series? Probably. He had to take on a bigger load though, since it was virtually a 2 on 5 that series.